hmm if that is so hansolo then XE8 should beat AAI 0.55 with ease, but I haven't tried either of them out yet.
My first attempt to get AAI working went down terribly. AAI 0.6 just sat there, it seems that XTAPEv1,2,3,4,5 don't work with AAI unless your using a linux setup and an XTAPE.sd7/sdz
Secondly, I think you should be aware that a simple "string aai.so" will give the user a list of all the functions and classes in AAI 0.6, something that isn't too nice for a closed source project... Also does Aurel32 mean anything? /home/aurel32/etc..... paths where found many times along with strings identifying compiler, user and linux distribution.
As for my random post, I was referring to the fact that when I playtest I notice that NTai immediatly starts yet the other AI's seem to wait a second. In OTAI 1.12 this can become an unsightly 1:52 depending on chance..... The other part was that this was because of the fundamental design difference between NTai (and the KAI 0.0 preview I believe) and AI's like JCAI/OTAI and AAI which stemmed from the 2 opposite approaches to construction (me: unit orientated you: base orientated)
AAI 0.60 released (win + linux version included)
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unpossible
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ignesandross
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Why does it keep crashing at the onset? I've tried the global AI test, tried setting the AI as plaer 1 and player 2, Arm and Core, tried AA1.44 and XTA v0.66 SE. Tried random start positions, tried fixed, tried pick start positions. Tried Metal Corners map, tried Valles Marineris map. I have the latest version of spring, etc. What am I doing wrong?
well on the other hand: i stopped playing with NTAI because it crashes my computer with absolute certainity after a random amount of time, while AAI and OTAI work for hours without problems.AF wrote:hmm it must mean that sometimes AAI takes longer than 10 minutes to startup, even OTAI didnt take that long, and only JCAI has ever taken longer (22:17)
Awesome stuff. I had to change the max metal cost tag from 1500 to 1000,000 or thereabouts to get it to build the really big stuff in FF but thats ok. -just so people know.
The aircraft grouping was awesome!! Squads of core Battlecruisers and archons laying siege to other ai's bases. Artillery support is awesome too. Nice to see the ai starting to build some olympus battlestations at the endgame!
The aircraft grouping was awesome!! Squads of core Battlecruisers and archons laying siege to other ai's bases. Artillery support is awesome too. Nice to see the ai starting to build some olympus battlestations at the endgame!
No unfortunately exception handling doesn't make something technically uncrashable, you'll need to use java or C# or another secure "sandbox" environment for that. You can still make something crash in C++ even with exception handling, exception handling is ment to handle errors without every function having a return code.points imeprator to the looming XE8 release which is technically uncrashable
after several more tries of AI skirmish i noticed that on my computer, if NTAI gets loaded after AAI, AAI doesnt do anything, if however AAI gets loaded last (due to team number higher than NTAIs team) AAI gets loaded properly and fights normally. but usually in a game with NTAI - the game crashes. AAI does also crash but much much less frequently (about one in four games after at least half an hour), while so far every game with NTAI has crashed the game. Making an AI uncrashable is a noble cause and at least as important as a good AI. Its important not just to have a challenge (which AAI provides already) but also to have a stable AI for those hour-long games.
Personally i am amazed by the rapid development ALL AIs have shown so far, really great job by all AI-coders out there, but its competition and the best AI will prevail
Personally i am amazed by the rapid development ALL AIs have shown so far, really great job by all AI-coders out there, but its competition and the best AI will prevail
XE8 fixed a slew of bugs, and is as far as I am aware 100% stable sicne no exceptions are recorded in the logs and no crashes have occured.
I must also say though that AAI 0.6 has only crashed once for me, and I'm not sure if that was AAI or my computer going into standby during a long test with XE8.
Considering that I'm always at the higher end of my NTai releases and tend to forget that the ncie version infront of me is soo much better than the buggy version everyone else has, which tends to hurt my AI.
Although I must congratulate submarine as 0.6 outgrew my expectations....
I must also say though that AAI 0.6 has only crashed once for me, and I'm not sure if that was AAI or my computer going into standby during a long test with XE8.
Considering that I'm always at the higher end of my NTai releases and tend to forget that the ncie version infront of me is soo much better than the buggy version everyone else has, which tends to hurt my AI.
Although I must congratulate submarine as 0.6 outgrew my expectations....
submarine, a report:
(also for Veylon)
OTAI 1.12 vs AAI 0.60
Map 1: 2v2 on Painted Desert (nice and open)
Map 2: 3v3 on Plains and Passes (even larger and also very open)
Mod: AA 1.44 (my favorite by far)
Mix of ARM and CORE on both sides
Overall results:
OTAI won 3 times in Painted Desert battle, AAI won none
AAI won 2 times in Plains and Passes battle, OTAI won none
Basically, OTAI takes a quick early lead but AAI wins on larger maps. AAI has a more advanced base that takes longer to get going but gives it a huge advantage once it gets an advanced economy with many fusions/MMMs and heavy artillery up and running. Meanwhile OTAI's base gets more and more crowded over time, leading to traffic jams and poor efficiency. Most importantly, AAI made much better use of metal patches.
NOTE: No use of NTAI (I'm waiting for XE8), so I don't know anything about bugs in that regard. I did have one game that I aborted because all OTAI's went to sleep at the same time, no idea what happened there. Otherwise, there were some 30-60 second commander pauses early in the game that I allowed to play through.
Detailed analysis:
OTAI strengths vs. AAI weaknesses
- OTAI simply starts up much more quickly. It builds key early infrastructure (solars/mexes/winds) at a much quicker rate. Especially its early use of wind gives it a cheap power edge. In contrast AAI seems to only build solars early on, missing out on the cheap quick energy of wind (this is somewhat map specific, I realize).
- AAI tried to tech to level 2 too quickly a couple times which, coupled with mex losses to OTAI's raiding, killed its economy
- OTAI also scouts earlier and more aggressively, resulting in successful raiding against AAI on the Painted Desert map and giving it an early lead.
- OTAI also seemed to form an attack group more quickly than AAI. Once it destroys a few of AAI's construction units, AAI is stuck trying to replace them and stops building combat units. Basically, OTAI is able to gain an early lead which defeats AAI on smaller maps.
- OTAI attack groups seemed to stay together a bit better, while AAI attack groups were nothing more than streams of units, which is very poor for attacking fortified positions. Overall attack groups functioned pretty well for both AI's though, some of the attacks growing quite large.
AAI Strengths vs. OTAI weaknesses
- Long-term base construction. AAI spreads its buildings out, and builds much more advanced fusion/MMM economy over time. This results in less congestion. In contrast, the OTAI bases became more and more crowded resulting in traffic jams and major mobility problems for unit groups. OTAI economy fell behind after a while, partly through lack of fusions, though mainly for the reason stated below:
- Metal patch usage. Especially noticable on Plains and Passes map, which has a lot of metal patches. Though both sides controlled about half the map for most of the game, AAI did a MUCH better job building mexes on all available metal patches. OTAI built a certain amount, and then ignored vast amounts of metal still available around it. This allowed AAI to gradually defeat OTAI through sheer numbers. Also, AAI did a fantastic job upgrading mexes to mohos, etc. Overall AAI handles metal extraction very, very well, similar to how a human would... definitely one of its strongest points.
- Heavy artillery. It's been mentioned before, but it really does help AAI in longer term games. One AAI built 3 Intimidators (backed up by numerous fusions) and used them to level an OTAI base.
- Defensive Structures. Both AI's build them, but AAI seemed to be a bit more thoughtful in where it put them and in how many it built. This was a bit tougher to observe, though.
BIG THANKS to both developers, these AI's each have some real strong points and are starting to look smarter and smarter. It is getting quite fun to watch them duke it out, so thanks a lot for your hard work!
(also for Veylon)
OTAI 1.12 vs AAI 0.60
Map 1: 2v2 on Painted Desert (nice and open)
Map 2: 3v3 on Plains and Passes (even larger and also very open)
Mod: AA 1.44 (my favorite by far)
Mix of ARM and CORE on both sides
Overall results:
OTAI won 3 times in Painted Desert battle, AAI won none
AAI won 2 times in Plains and Passes battle, OTAI won none
Basically, OTAI takes a quick early lead but AAI wins on larger maps. AAI has a more advanced base that takes longer to get going but gives it a huge advantage once it gets an advanced economy with many fusions/MMMs and heavy artillery up and running. Meanwhile OTAI's base gets more and more crowded over time, leading to traffic jams and poor efficiency. Most importantly, AAI made much better use of metal patches.
NOTE: No use of NTAI (I'm waiting for XE8), so I don't know anything about bugs in that regard. I did have one game that I aborted because all OTAI's went to sleep at the same time, no idea what happened there. Otherwise, there were some 30-60 second commander pauses early in the game that I allowed to play through.
Detailed analysis:
OTAI strengths vs. AAI weaknesses
- OTAI simply starts up much more quickly. It builds key early infrastructure (solars/mexes/winds) at a much quicker rate. Especially its early use of wind gives it a cheap power edge. In contrast AAI seems to only build solars early on, missing out on the cheap quick energy of wind (this is somewhat map specific, I realize).
- AAI tried to tech to level 2 too quickly a couple times which, coupled with mex losses to OTAI's raiding, killed its economy
- OTAI also scouts earlier and more aggressively, resulting in successful raiding against AAI on the Painted Desert map and giving it an early lead.
- OTAI also seemed to form an attack group more quickly than AAI. Once it destroys a few of AAI's construction units, AAI is stuck trying to replace them and stops building combat units. Basically, OTAI is able to gain an early lead which defeats AAI on smaller maps.
- OTAI attack groups seemed to stay together a bit better, while AAI attack groups were nothing more than streams of units, which is very poor for attacking fortified positions. Overall attack groups functioned pretty well for both AI's though, some of the attacks growing quite large.
AAI Strengths vs. OTAI weaknesses
- Long-term base construction. AAI spreads its buildings out, and builds much more advanced fusion/MMM economy over time. This results in less congestion. In contrast, the OTAI bases became more and more crowded resulting in traffic jams and major mobility problems for unit groups. OTAI economy fell behind after a while, partly through lack of fusions, though mainly for the reason stated below:
- Metal patch usage. Especially noticable on Plains and Passes map, which has a lot of metal patches. Though both sides controlled about half the map for most of the game, AAI did a MUCH better job building mexes on all available metal patches. OTAI built a certain amount, and then ignored vast amounts of metal still available around it. This allowed AAI to gradually defeat OTAI through sheer numbers. Also, AAI did a fantastic job upgrading mexes to mohos, etc. Overall AAI handles metal extraction very, very well, similar to how a human would... definitely one of its strongest points.
- Heavy artillery. It's been mentioned before, but it really does help AAI in longer term games. One AAI built 3 Intimidators (backed up by numerous fusions) and used them to level an OTAI base.
- Defensive Structures. Both AI's build them, but AAI seemed to be a bit more thoughtful in where it put them and in how many it built. This was a bit tougher to observe, though.
BIG THANKS to both developers, these AI's each have some real strong points and are starting to look smarter and smarter. It is getting quite fun to watch them duke it out, so thanks a lot for your hard work!
hmm nicke pointed me at some possible crash bugs resulting from multithreading. there'll be another bugfix release the next few days to increase aai's stability. apart from that, nicke also discovered some bugs in spring itself (div. by zero)
btw: how do you manage to play with otai without getting those constant freezes??!?
btw: how do you manage to play with otai without getting those constant freezes??!?
