Expand & Exterminate .155 Released!
Moderator: Moderators
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Pathfinder
- Posts: 47
- Joined: 26 Jun 2005, 05:02
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
I believe that I can go ahead and say that the possibility of superunits is quite small.
Reason being, there is just no need. Artillary units simply are all that is needed to break the porcupines spines.
Also, one thing to note is that turrets, while quite useful cannot stand up to a dedicated assault.
Another thing that ppl should know is that artillary should always be part of an attacking force.
As a test some time ago, I had 1 base build a massive amount of turrets behind walls, lv 1 and lv2 turrets right behind. While the turrets took out a lions share of units, artillary simply pwned the defences in the long run.
The turrets are there to basically stop a small attack, or slow down a dedicated assualt so that you can flank the attackers. There isn't really any way to porc, because if your opponent is using lv1, 2 and 3 units in a mixed group, you'll be in serious trouble.
URC is pretty much incapable of porcing because GD artillary generally has longer range than urc mortors, whereas GD is incapable of porcing generally because urc always has line of sight due to cloaked scouts.
Reason being, there is just no need. Artillary units simply are all that is needed to break the porcupines spines.
Also, one thing to note is that turrets, while quite useful cannot stand up to a dedicated assault.
Another thing that ppl should know is that artillary should always be part of an attacking force.
As a test some time ago, I had 1 base build a massive amount of turrets behind walls, lv 1 and lv2 turrets right behind. While the turrets took out a lions share of units, artillary simply pwned the defences in the long run.
The turrets are there to basically stop a small attack, or slow down a dedicated assualt so that you can flank the attackers. There isn't really any way to porc, because if your opponent is using lv1, 2 and 3 units in a mixed group, you'll be in serious trouble.
URC is pretty much incapable of porcing because GD artillary generally has longer range than urc mortors, whereas GD is incapable of porcing generally because urc always has line of sight due to cloaked scouts.
This mod just sounds better and better!Forboding Angel wrote:The turrets are there to basically stop a small attack, or slow down a dedicated assualt so that you can flank the attackers. There isn't really any way to porc, because if your opponent is using lv1, 2 and 3 units in a mixed group, you'll be in serious trouble.
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Pathfinder
- Posts: 47
- Joined: 26 Jun 2005, 05:02
Finally a mod where artillary is actually useful, and people wont be able to turtle as well. Keep up the good work.Reason being, there is just no need. Artillary units simply are all that is needed to break the porcupines spines.
Also, one thing to note is that turrets, while quite useful cannot stand up to a dedicated assault.
Another thing that ppl should know is that artillary should always be part of an attacking force.
As a test some time ago, I had 1 base build a massive amount of turrets behind walls, lv 1 and lv2 turrets right behind. While the turrets took out a lions share of units, artillary simply pwned the defences in the long run.
The turrets are there to basically stop a small attack, or slow down a dedicated assualt so that you can flank the attackers. There isn't really any way to porc, because if your opponent is using lv1, 2 and 3 units in a mixed group, you'll be in serious trouble.
URC is pretty much incapable of porcing because GD artillary generally has longer range than urc mortors, whereas GD is incapable of porcing generally because urc always has line of sight due to cloaked scouts.
There will be no krogoths, orcones.. or other gigantic uber units of mass confusion... yes the lvl 3 units are big (not AA krogoth big though) they are not the be all end all of units and must still be supported to be effective... there will however be super weapons on the order of nukes and so forth, so look for those to stop a dedicated porcer..
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Comprehensive Unit List:
URC:
lvl1 Ground:
Plasma Mech, Rocket Mech, Flamethrower Mech, Mortar Mech, Scout Mech, Radar Mech, AA Mech, Con Mech...
lvl2 Ground:
Plasma Mech, Rocket Mech, Cannon Mech, AA Mech, Cloaked Plasma Mech, Cloaked Rocket Mech, Cloaked Jammer Mech, Rocket Arty Mech, Minelayer Mech, Con Mech, Amphibious Mech...
lvl3 Ground:
Plasma Mech, Rocket Mech, Cannon Mech, Rocket Arty Mech, Cloaked Plasma Mech, Cloaked Rocket Mech, AA Mech, ATV Transport Mech, Cloaked Flamethrower Mech...
lvl1 Air:
Plasma VTOL, Rocket VTOL, Radar VTOL...
lvl2 Air:
Plasma VTOL, Rocket VTOL, Bomber VTOL, Transport VTOL...
lvl3 Air:
Rocket VTOL, Bomber VTOL, Heavy Bomber VTOL...
lvl1 Ship:
Plasma Gunboat, Rocket Gunboat, AA Gunboat...
lvl2 Ship:
Plasma Destroyer, Mortar Destroyer, Rocket Destroyer, ECM Destroyer, Destroyer Con, Submarine, Transport...
lvl3 Ship:
Plasma Cruiser, Rocket Cruiser, Mortar Cruiser, Carrier, Cruise Missile Submarine...
GD:
lvl1 Ground:
Light Tank, Rocket Tank, Laser Tank, Artillery Tank, Scout Tank, Radar Tank, AA Tank, Con Tank...
lvl2 Ground:
Medium Tank, Rocket Tank, Laser Tank, Artillery Tank, Ion Cannon Tank, Amphibious Med Tank, Amphibious Rocket Tank, Minelayer Tank, Jammer Tank, AA Tank, Con Tank...
lvl3 Ground:
Heavy Tank, Rocket Tank, Laser Tank, Artillery Tank, Ion Cannon Tank, Amphibious Hvy Tank, Amphibious Rocket Tank, AA Tank, Nuke Arty Tank, Tactical Nuke Launcher...
lvl1 Air:
Machine Gun Helicopter, Missile Helicopter, Transport Helicopter, Scout Helicopter...
lvl2 Air:
Machine Gun Helicopter, Missile Helicopter, Bomber Helicopter...
lvl3 Air:
Rocket Helicopter, Bomber Helicopter, Nuke Bomber Helicopter, Heavy Transport Helicopter...
lvl1 Ship:
Laser Gunboat, Rocket Gunboat, AA Gunboat...
lvl2 Ship:
Laser Destroyer, Rocket Destroyer, Artillery Destroyer, ECM Destroyer, Destroyer Con, Submarine, Transport...
lvl3 Ship:
Laser Cruiser, Rocket Cruiser, Artillery Destroyer, Carrier, Tactical Nuke Submarine...
URC:
lvl1 Ground:
Plasma Mech, Rocket Mech, Flamethrower Mech, Mortar Mech, Scout Mech, Radar Mech, AA Mech, Con Mech...
lvl2 Ground:
Plasma Mech, Rocket Mech, Cannon Mech, AA Mech, Cloaked Plasma Mech, Cloaked Rocket Mech, Cloaked Jammer Mech, Rocket Arty Mech, Minelayer Mech, Con Mech, Amphibious Mech...
lvl3 Ground:
Plasma Mech, Rocket Mech, Cannon Mech, Rocket Arty Mech, Cloaked Plasma Mech, Cloaked Rocket Mech, AA Mech, ATV Transport Mech, Cloaked Flamethrower Mech...
lvl1 Air:
Plasma VTOL, Rocket VTOL, Radar VTOL...
lvl2 Air:
Plasma VTOL, Rocket VTOL, Bomber VTOL, Transport VTOL...
lvl3 Air:
Rocket VTOL, Bomber VTOL, Heavy Bomber VTOL...
lvl1 Ship:
Plasma Gunboat, Rocket Gunboat, AA Gunboat...
lvl2 Ship:
Plasma Destroyer, Mortar Destroyer, Rocket Destroyer, ECM Destroyer, Destroyer Con, Submarine, Transport...
lvl3 Ship:
Plasma Cruiser, Rocket Cruiser, Mortar Cruiser, Carrier, Cruise Missile Submarine...
GD:
lvl1 Ground:
Light Tank, Rocket Tank, Laser Tank, Artillery Tank, Scout Tank, Radar Tank, AA Tank, Con Tank...
lvl2 Ground:
Medium Tank, Rocket Tank, Laser Tank, Artillery Tank, Ion Cannon Tank, Amphibious Med Tank, Amphibious Rocket Tank, Minelayer Tank, Jammer Tank, AA Tank, Con Tank...
lvl3 Ground:
Heavy Tank, Rocket Tank, Laser Tank, Artillery Tank, Ion Cannon Tank, Amphibious Hvy Tank, Amphibious Rocket Tank, AA Tank, Nuke Arty Tank, Tactical Nuke Launcher...
lvl1 Air:
Machine Gun Helicopter, Missile Helicopter, Transport Helicopter, Scout Helicopter...
lvl2 Air:
Machine Gun Helicopter, Missile Helicopter, Bomber Helicopter...
lvl3 Air:
Rocket Helicopter, Bomber Helicopter, Nuke Bomber Helicopter, Heavy Transport Helicopter...
lvl1 Ship:
Laser Gunboat, Rocket Gunboat, AA Gunboat...
lvl2 Ship:
Laser Destroyer, Rocket Destroyer, Artillery Destroyer, ECM Destroyer, Destroyer Con, Submarine, Transport...
lvl3 Ship:
Laser Cruiser, Rocket Cruiser, Artillery Destroyer, Carrier, Tactical Nuke Submarine...
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Pathfinder
- Posts: 47
- Joined: 26 Jun 2005, 05:02
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
a l3 unit dwarfs a lv 1 unit
Like I said before, when you see a l3 tank for the first time you will be like "HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!"
also, l1 units for urc are quadripeds, whereas lv2 and l3 are bipeds, not to mention the size difference.
Cloaked jammers? Ya, that isn't really anything new. URC if played correctly will normally have los on your base the entire game.
One really nice thing about GD is the armed mexes. When you have reactors up you can switch to nothing but armed mexes. THey pack a hell of a punch, and when you have metal spots grouped together they become really useful. Also, if you have urco scout spiders in your bas and the urc player e stalls, your mexes will take out the spiders really quickly.
1 really funny thing that happened ttonight wasthe game we had...
Me and das bruce vs fang and decimator.
Deci managed to drop urc flamethrowers into my beautiful gd base, and blow up a few things including my l1 factory.
All of a sudden... My factories wreckage dissappeared... Deci had reclaimed it with a scout spider (and lost the spider as a result, but it was really funny nonetheless) :D
When playing vs a urc player, you have to come to grips with the fact that the urc player can see most if not all of your base and what you are dpoing most of the time (this is where radar jamming and remote sneaky bases come in) and adapt accordingly.
As I have said before a great tactic for gd is including scout tanks with the main battle force, and when a new bit of ground is captured you can set up spy cameras everywhere. GD scouts have a minigun so they can be a nice addition to your battle group. Also, since GD's artillary is longer ranged than urc's mortors, LOS becomes a very important thing to have. Also, the scouts can build small stealth radars whick come in very handy when attacking a location that you do not have under constant radar coverage.
ATm gd and urc ships are being balanced a bit.
Another nifty thing about gd... The laser tanks have a very low profile, so much that the l1 battle tanks can shoot over them, so they make great spearhead units. The rocket units shoot in an arced trajectory, but have rather short range, making them great 2nd line units.
E&E has a habit of rewarding those who use mixed unit groups. If you only build one unit for the entire game it's not going to get you much of anywhere. The URC plasma unit is prolly the most spammable, but when facing a group of mixed units of the same number, the plasma units will lose (unless you manage to royally fuck up... Which I have done on multiple occasions which usually results in a string of random cusswords :)).
I did manage to learn a thing or two about gd expansion today... Armed mexes and minigun turrets help each other a lot. It can make a rather large difference when trying to expand into hostile territory.
Anyway, I've rambled enough for today :D
Like I said before, when you see a l3 tank for the first time you will be like "HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!"
also, l1 units for urc are quadripeds, whereas lv2 and l3 are bipeds, not to mention the size difference.
Cloaked jammers? Ya, that isn't really anything new. URC if played correctly will normally have los on your base the entire game.
One really nice thing about GD is the armed mexes. When you have reactors up you can switch to nothing but armed mexes. THey pack a hell of a punch, and when you have metal spots grouped together they become really useful. Also, if you have urco scout spiders in your bas and the urc player e stalls, your mexes will take out the spiders really quickly.
1 really funny thing that happened ttonight wasthe game we had...
Me and das bruce vs fang and decimator.
Deci managed to drop urc flamethrowers into my beautiful gd base, and blow up a few things including my l1 factory.
All of a sudden... My factories wreckage dissappeared... Deci had reclaimed it with a scout spider (and lost the spider as a result, but it was really funny nonetheless) :D
When playing vs a urc player, you have to come to grips with the fact that the urc player can see most if not all of your base and what you are dpoing most of the time (this is where radar jamming and remote sneaky bases come in) and adapt accordingly.
As I have said before a great tactic for gd is including scout tanks with the main battle force, and when a new bit of ground is captured you can set up spy cameras everywhere. GD scouts have a minigun so they can be a nice addition to your battle group. Also, since GD's artillary is longer ranged than urc's mortors, LOS becomes a very important thing to have. Also, the scouts can build small stealth radars whick come in very handy when attacking a location that you do not have under constant radar coverage.
ATm gd and urc ships are being balanced a bit.
Another nifty thing about gd... The laser tanks have a very low profile, so much that the l1 battle tanks can shoot over them, so they make great spearhead units. The rocket units shoot in an arced trajectory, but have rather short range, making them great 2nd line units.
E&E has a habit of rewarding those who use mixed unit groups. If you only build one unit for the entire game it's not going to get you much of anywhere. The URC plasma unit is prolly the most spammable, but when facing a group of mixed units of the same number, the plasma units will lose (unless you manage to royally fuck up... Which I have done on multiple occasions which usually results in a string of random cusswords :)).
I did manage to learn a thing or two about gd expansion today... Armed mexes and minigun turrets help each other a lot. It can make a rather large difference when trying to expand into hostile territory.
Anyway, I've rambled enough for today :D
I really lke this mod. A lot.
Forb is mostly right, but i have to disagree on the spamming part.
For instance, you can just spam the GD main battle tank, and no ranged units will be able to stop them. Of course, you can spam them before the enemy has an airforce, and what really makes the spam effective is one thing that is different to most Spring mods in this one:
The defensive turrets performe not so well against all but the level 1 units.
While the mini gun used to be über, it can now be quicly overwhelmed by a swarm of mediocre units.
All level 2 tanks and mechs can be spammed with only a few mexes available, and energy is rather cheap to get in this mod anyway.
During the games i played, most standard maps we have now provide enough metal spots for each player, to establish a force of lvl 2 units, capable of breaking any lvl 2 defence (there is no lvl 3 turret), which is quite different from other mods, where you cant break defences so easily.
Further more, the level 2 artillery is quite cheap, has awesome range and decent firepower, combine that with the MBT or plasma bot spam and watch your enemy go down.
In short, this mod is not for porcers, long range fire is available sooner and better than in other mods, medium tanks actually pack a punch and can plow through the rather weak turret emplacements. The Airforce is rather weak, the economy is easily maintained, when used on maps with more than 3 metal spots per player. Its a fast paced game. Faster than AA.
One thing to add:
While most Mods, including this one, differentiate the sides by weapons, armour, flight and generally largely the attributes of the units, this mod tries to also differentiate the economical side of things.
The GD std. mexes produce energy. The GD plant produces a lot energy relative to the URC plant, so you need fewer, and you need them later, cause your early maxes will produce energy. GD has Armed Maxes which consume energy, URC can cloak their mexes, which is useless, because the spots tell you where the mexes are.
In short, the mod tries to variy the economy a bit between the sides, but not much more significantly than AA for example.
Now, a daring mod maker would make the difference more important.
Rather than just to fumble with the numbers a little and slightly increase the amount of powerplants for the URC, why not be more redical ?
Why not differentiate the economies by a whole concept ?
Scince you always have to fight for ground and we are so used to taking spots and space, there must be something else to seperate the sides.
And that would be the difference between MACRO and MICRO.
Make it so that the URC economy takes MICRO to be effective, and the GD one takes MACRO.
That is quite easily achieved, and the mod is already trimmed that way.
While the difference is only seen in the number of energy plants right now, you could extend that to the unit production.
That means that URC has weaker units which are produced faster, requiring the same ressources as the corresponding GD units, which are produced slower but are heavier. To a certain extend it is that way right now, but it could be more obvious.
Also, you could rid GD of any energy plants, and only have mexes that also produce energy, so that all a GD player has to do is think about the order of mex spots he wants to take. Even the armed mexes would then produce energy, and defend themselves, including probably a AA-weapon, basically creating a self-sustained MACRO economy, giving the player time to maneuver his fewer but stronger units.
URC on the contrary could have all their mexes weak in armor, not cloaked, and consuming energy, so that every few mexes would require a powerplant, the lvl 2 mexes would have the advantage of consuming LESS energy, giving you more e for unit production.
The units would be weaker but more numerous for the same amount of M and E compared to GD, requiring more MICRO from the player, but that pays off in the end, as URC units would have more firepower, making that focused fire pay off faster. Also, URC would need to protect the weak mexes with units, scince the mexes cant defend themselves, and you should have a builder near the mexes, scince they die so quick and you need to replace them thus creating a MICRO intensive econ.
Again, the mod is already aligned in that described direction, but except for the relative inality to porc, it plays pretty generic (take spots, hold em a while, mass units, ovverun enemy).
If you make GD a MACRO Econ, and URC a MIRCO one, people could really decide what style they like to play mroe, instead of playing this mod like they play AA.
The thirf faction could strike a healthy balance between MACRO and MICRO, as they are planned to be versatile with their hovering units anyway.
Forb is mostly right, but i have to disagree on the spamming part.
For instance, you can just spam the GD main battle tank, and no ranged units will be able to stop them. Of course, you can spam them before the enemy has an airforce, and what really makes the spam effective is one thing that is different to most Spring mods in this one:
The defensive turrets performe not so well against all but the level 1 units.
While the mini gun used to be über, it can now be quicly overwhelmed by a swarm of mediocre units.
All level 2 tanks and mechs can be spammed with only a few mexes available, and energy is rather cheap to get in this mod anyway.
During the games i played, most standard maps we have now provide enough metal spots for each player, to establish a force of lvl 2 units, capable of breaking any lvl 2 defence (there is no lvl 3 turret), which is quite different from other mods, where you cant break defences so easily.
Further more, the level 2 artillery is quite cheap, has awesome range and decent firepower, combine that with the MBT or plasma bot spam and watch your enemy go down.
In short, this mod is not for porcers, long range fire is available sooner and better than in other mods, medium tanks actually pack a punch and can plow through the rather weak turret emplacements. The Airforce is rather weak, the economy is easily maintained, when used on maps with more than 3 metal spots per player. Its a fast paced game. Faster than AA.
One thing to add:
While most Mods, including this one, differentiate the sides by weapons, armour, flight and generally largely the attributes of the units, this mod tries to also differentiate the economical side of things.
The GD std. mexes produce energy. The GD plant produces a lot energy relative to the URC plant, so you need fewer, and you need them later, cause your early maxes will produce energy. GD has Armed Maxes which consume energy, URC can cloak their mexes, which is useless, because the spots tell you where the mexes are.
In short, the mod tries to variy the economy a bit between the sides, but not much more significantly than AA for example.
Now, a daring mod maker would make the difference more important.
Rather than just to fumble with the numbers a little and slightly increase the amount of powerplants for the URC, why not be more redical ?
Why not differentiate the economies by a whole concept ?
Scince you always have to fight for ground and we are so used to taking spots and space, there must be something else to seperate the sides.
And that would be the difference between MACRO and MICRO.
Make it so that the URC economy takes MICRO to be effective, and the GD one takes MACRO.
That is quite easily achieved, and the mod is already trimmed that way.
While the difference is only seen in the number of energy plants right now, you could extend that to the unit production.
That means that URC has weaker units which are produced faster, requiring the same ressources as the corresponding GD units, which are produced slower but are heavier. To a certain extend it is that way right now, but it could be more obvious.
Also, you could rid GD of any energy plants, and only have mexes that also produce energy, so that all a GD player has to do is think about the order of mex spots he wants to take. Even the armed mexes would then produce energy, and defend themselves, including probably a AA-weapon, basically creating a self-sustained MACRO economy, giving the player time to maneuver his fewer but stronger units.
URC on the contrary could have all their mexes weak in armor, not cloaked, and consuming energy, so that every few mexes would require a powerplant, the lvl 2 mexes would have the advantage of consuming LESS energy, giving you more e for unit production.
The units would be weaker but more numerous for the same amount of M and E compared to GD, requiring more MICRO from the player, but that pays off in the end, as URC units would have more firepower, making that focused fire pay off faster. Also, URC would need to protect the weak mexes with units, scince the mexes cant defend themselves, and you should have a builder near the mexes, scince they die so quick and you need to replace them thus creating a MICRO intensive econ.
Again, the mod is already aligned in that described direction, but except for the relative inality to porc, it plays pretty generic (take spots, hold em a while, mass units, ovverun enemy).
If you make GD a MACRO Econ, and URC a MIRCO one, people could really decide what style they like to play mroe, instead of playing this mod like they play AA.
The thirf faction could strike a healthy balance between MACRO and MICRO, as they are planned to be versatile with their hovering units anyway.
seriously this is like 2150 concepts + other stuff + balancing - research = fun fun fun