Is Comet Catcher good for 1v1?

mongus · Post by **mongus** » 02 Apr 2006, 23:53

In my opinion, a 1v1 map should not let players gather too much resources, without getting the players to challenge over them.

Either by putting not much on starts and rich center (not too far away).

Or by having the metal distributed in several strategic places...

or by not letting players get too much metal without "bumping" into each other.

Also the maps should be relatively small..

well enough whining, is comet for 1v1 or is it not?

Here one of the games ive had there

post yours!

e: replay with closer starts.

Zenka · Post by **Zenka** » 03 Apr 2006, 07:58

Comet is good for 1v1.
Though you are looking at a lenghy game. Since both players got large lands to expand before running into eachother. It gives nice results though.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 03 Apr 2006, 09:18

It's just you GOT to expand to survive on this map. Also later game you can get many hotpots, so yes it's not a easy map, but it has classic gameplay, and a good mix between macro and mirco skill are needed on this map!

EDIT

Also Spring is a RTS, and not a RTT and for RTS big maps and loads of units are needed!

PauloMorfeo · Post by **PauloMorfeo** » 03 Apr 2006, 13:47

Common, Mong, starting K-Bots and going Jethros and Peewees..?

CC has a very unique style of play and i took a long time to get used to it. But if you play it moderatly well, it isn't a slow and boring map.
The map is almost completely open and the metal is very spread. That means that the expansion is very vulnerable. Your problem is that you are too defensive when playing a map like this. If you don't chalenge your oponent's expansion, he will grow and you will spend most of the time defending, not seeing any action, having a boring game.

Zippers, that's what you needed. Raiding is what you needed. Check the replay with the left side of NOIZE, completely undefended and unchalenged, giving him loads of metal. You needed to have zippers explore where metal patches are, killing mexes and cons. It is very hard to defend CC.
Even zippers will take it's time to reach the oponent and that is what makes CC somewhat slow in the first minutes. But after units start to arive the oponent, it no longer becomes a slow game, it becomes a game much like other games. You just need to think some 10~30 seconds ahead which is the time a new wave of units will take to reach the oponent.

Although it's size is scratching on the too big side, it's complete opennes makes it a decent map for 1v1.

Bhaal · Post by **Bhaal** » 03 Apr 2006, 16:05

Sry Mongus
but i think you are maybe not experienced enough to choose the maps....

I mean if u think that cc isn t good for 1v1 and GreenHaven is too big for 1v1 you didn t got what TA is.

I think that maps like Dueling Forts are just Fun maps and not for competition

Also Spring is a RTS, and not a RTT and for RTS big maps and loads of units are needed!

Yeah Noize got the point :)

Hellspawn · Post by **Hellspawn** » 03 Apr 2006, 17:20

Vehicles are much more usefull then kbots on CC and then going air as soon as possible. I think its a great 1v1 map, I am just getting used on it :). They key to victory is to expand faster then your opponent and raid him all the time.

mongus · Post by **mongus** » 03 Apr 2006, 20:58

NOiZE wrote:but it has classic gameplay

The classic part of this map ends where the metal spots give 90% more than the "Classic" one.

If its supposed to be a classic should respect metal layout aswell.

However, a good classic should not have the metal distribution unblance this one has. (look at top right spot).

NOiZE wrote:Also Spring is a RTS, and not a RTT and for RTS big maps and loads of units are needed!

What you mean?

Paulada, you read the "i played like crap" disclaimer :)

Paulada wrote:Check the replay with the left side of NOIZE, completely undefended and unchalenged, giving him loads of metal.

This is what i mean.. its ... rather hard, to counter the construction vehicles, yeah not funny!, i did find and kill like 2 of them in that replay.. but could i have killed them all?...

Bhaal, i think you are not experienced enough to tell if i'm expericied. :p

GreenHaven is in the list, which means its good for 1v1.

Note this is not TA, and plays different.

Small maps, like icy run and dueling forts, offer great fun, in short time, and can be quite challenging, sure you have played them?

Almost all games ive had onthose maps, were really fun and had interesting outcomes.

Well ill try harder next time, in the meantime you can provide 1v1 replays for this map as im interesting in watchin them.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 03 Apr 2006, 21:46

MOnG, no offense, but you are wrong and about the metal distribution it's damn close to the original one (from TA). The map was also unbalanced in TA....

BTW

GreenHaven is bigger then Comet..

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 03 Apr 2006, 22:18

really? :s
anyway, MoNG is far from inexperienced, his play style would serve him well on a smaller map. besides as he said he was having a bad day.
besides which, playing NOiZE on comet is a real bitch, i swear he maphacks ;P he always seems to gets the undefended expansion and your raids don't seem to be hurting
(although if u watch the replay you will probably see you clammed up like a noob after losing the 4-5th protected/unprotected con XD)
(i still love him to bits though :))

mongus · Post by **mongus** » 03 Apr 2006, 22:29

The output is 1.0 in TA, and 1.9 in the remake for spring.

The distribution, in the original and this one gives closer metal patches to top rigth player. :/

A strange thing about maps, is its not about the size (8x8, 10x10) but.. it has more to do with the terrain.. let me check why it was there..

e: oh, and i watched a great replay for the title in that map, NOiZE vs Paulada(defending),... far from boring, it was a good game, altougth the ammounts of resources .. made it a bit stressing..

e2: think i tempted myself with that map, will remove it for now till i can play it again.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 03 Apr 2006, 22:42

closer and easier to defend yes
but between players following the same BO the metal output difference is neglible, although the way they are capable to defend some 5 mexes with a few MT is annoying, live with it! the map still owns

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 03 Apr 2006, 23:31

Meh, Comet, it has some stuff like it's extreme outrages way of forceing you to expand ASAP and balancing between defending and attacking, but i'm getting tired of all the games we have on it... it feels like a "learn how to expand and raid" map, since the border tension comes late and is ofen to short. The tatics ofen become predicebole and old, and most things DOES work twice. It's almost always a matter of who stalls the others expansion long enougth to conquer alot of the map. If your driven away you have an extreme low chance of ever coming back into the game. Also, almost every attack is either a small raid or a final rush crush.

CC is pretty good in Teamgames thougth, 2v2 and 3v3 is fun and varies from play to play, but i'm still tired of the amount of games Min n Noize wants to play on it. Gimme a small, gruesome, chokepoint filled map over CC anyday.

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 04 Apr 2006, 01:20

Ive never seen a 1v1 comet game turn into anything other than who can spam the most flash/gators the fastest, while ordering a few con bots to built forests of llt's around a base
It has no high terrain to hold, no choke points to fight over, no wind so your energy economy options are limited, low gravity so artillery is useless as the shells take so long to come down it has nothing really... its flat, grey and boring, so no its not a good 1v1 map, brazilian battlefield or evergreenhaven are probably the best maps for 1v1, they at least promote some form of tactical thinking.

I have my Asbestos suit on - feel free to flame me

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 04 Apr 2006, 01:39

*cough* This is why we could use some good map reviews on the wiki...

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 04 Apr 2006, 08:26

mongus wrote:The output is 1.0 in TA, and 1.9 in the remake for spring.

That's just not true!!!

PauloMorfeo · Post by **PauloMorfeo** » 04 Apr 2006, 18:54

Bhaal wrote:...
I mean if u think that ... and GreenHaven is too big for 1v1 you didn t got what TA is.
...

Greenhaven is not a ├é┬½good├é┬╗ map for a 1v1!

Kixxe wrote:Meh, Comet, ... it feels like a "learn how to expand and raid" map, since the border tension comes late and is ofen to short. ...

Of course, playing always the same map becomes boring. That is normal.

However, that is a thing i miss many times when playing CC with small teams (1v1/2v2), the lack of border tension and border control. Of course, the think i like about CC like that is, also, that very same thing, lack of borders because of the aggression never stoping.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 04 Apr 2006, 19:56

green haven is great for 1v1
gator/flashes fixed in new AA
in XTA? lol wsl spam FTW >XD
in OTA? hell yeay ^.^

mongus · Post by **mongus** » 06 Apr 2006, 00:26

NOiZE wrote:
mongus wrote:The output is 1.0 in TA, and 1.9 in the remake for spring.

That's just not true!!!

aigth, i didnt check.. its 1.9 in the non "remake" version.. but its higher in remake aswell, dont recall how much..

In the TA it is 1.0 per extractor.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 06 Apr 2006, 09:04

it's a bit different but it's not as dramatic as you think:

mongus · Post by **mongus** » 06 Apr 2006, 22:37

mongus wrote:In the TA it is 1.0 per extractor.

lies!

you are rigth NOiZE, i didnt check properly.

its quite like the original, it has a bit more metal, just a bit.

forgive the extra whinning.

Top rigth player and bottom left player, both get more or less the same ammount of metal.

Bottom left seems a bit more hard to defend.. again its a bit.

Spring RTS Engine

Is Comet Catcher good for 1v1?

1v1 on Comet?

Is Comet Catcher good for 1v1?