.:New Map:. Koth

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 29 Mar 2006, 00:17

Now let me preface that I really really really don't wanna start a fight.

That said, I bring you a map with a set height of 1 grand. Everything in the game is capable of climbing the ramps (to my knowledge).

That said, I did NOT use a typemap for this. Typemaps work for super high maps but imo it looks really silly for a tank to be climbing a 60 degree slope (actually imo it looks odd for anything to be climbing that steep of a slope).

In doing this I am trying to come up with work arounds/practices of higher height maps (without using typemaps).

Some of the conclusions I've come to is that your slopes need to be quite long and your hills need to be quite big (resulting in a bigger map). Also, you have to take artillery tanks/structures into account because they gain significant range at higher heights.

Check it out, I believe it is a good example of a few things, and it seems to be quite entertaining to play.

Download here:
http://fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=2783

Screens:

Das Bruce · Post by **Das Bruce** » 29 Mar 2006, 04:49

Contour lines?

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 29 Mar 2006, 04:55

Zsinj's tower of babel map!

Well. Nearly.

hrmph · Post by **hrmph** » 29 Mar 2006, 05:01

Very cool, I really like the mossy grass texture.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 29 Mar 2006, 05:18

not contour lines bruce

shadows

one of the unfortunate downsides of high heights is that sloped ground gets pretty damn bumpy

Springs shadows bounce off of the bumps. However, I may at some point raise the sun height so that shadows aren't so pronounced.

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 29 Mar 2006, 06:38

What's wrong with contours?

I LOVE contours on maps... ever seen Incan/Mayan terraces?

It looks like that... its fuckign sweet.

Contour/terraces ftw!@ :D

Das Bruce · Post by **Das Bruce** » 29 Mar 2006, 07:18

Tanks driving up and down look silly on it though.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 29 Mar 2006, 07:27

one of the unfortunate downsides of high heights is that sloped ground gets pretty damn bumpy

Can't do anything about it. :D Sorry.

It's the curse of using 8 bit heightmaps (even thought this is actually using a 32 bit heightmap, thanks to l3dt resampling and regenerating it for me from the original). Still happens.

when you have what is basically iirc 256 levels of grey, you can only do so much to smooth it out

Flint · Post by **Flint** » 29 Mar 2006, 07:59

This is a great map, enough so that I keep using it for screenshots all the time.

Jerry6ok · Post by **Jerry6ok** » 29 Mar 2006, 08:00

One way to smooth out your heightmap is to open it in ps or whatever paint program your using and Moir'e pattern removal with fine detail set at 2 with band removal at 0.

That should smooth out almost any heightmap.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 29 Mar 2006, 08:16

jerry, I did smooth out the heightmap.

The thing you and most ppl here don't realize is that when you make a heightmap 3d, it stretches it upwards.

What this means is that anywhere that there is a difference in slope, you have a bump (normally not noticeable except at really high heights, in this maps case 1000).

I know you're jsut trying to help, but, I've already done all of that. There isn't really anthing you can do about it.

Greyscale is 256 colors of grey. If we had 50 millian colors of grey, then we wouldn't have this problem.

Imagine this: You have a map that is 256 units (meters for simplicity's sake) high and you have a ramp that goes from complete black to complete white. You get a super smooth ramp. Now, take the same ramp and make it 1256 units high. Understand what I mean now?

Das Bruce · Post by **Das Bruce** » 29 Mar 2006, 10:10

How much would it take to implement a 32bit greyscale heightmap?

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 29 Mar 2006, 10:24

Thats not realy a question for mappers... however Actully having it would not be as hard as making it (if u get what i mean... making teh eightmap woild be teh dificulty not getting it to work...)

BTW did you use lowpass when you did this mate?

aGorm

mufdvr222 · Post by **mufdvr222** » 29 Mar 2006, 10:37

Nice map forboding, the textures look great.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 29 Mar 2006, 11:53

I really love the cliffs!

A pity for that bumpyness, but like agorm said, did you use lowpass?

Also the trees are a bit lined up

Damn we are getting demanding

mother · Post by **mother** » 29 Mar 2006, 17:04

Das Bruce wrote:How much would it take to implement a 32bit greyscale heightmap?

The heightmap itself has 16 bits of resolution, and mapconv will accept a 16bit raw format heightmap... I really doubt we're going to be needing more than 65,536 distinct levels.

The challenge is getting a 16bit raw heightmap. [Maybe not as tough a challenge as a 32bit greyscale format though.]

FA was on the right track... If you are using a BMP heightmap you've got 256 equally spaced height levels. At a 1024 height range you end up with a height difference of 4 for adjacent grey levels. This will tend to leave you with steppes instead of <45deg slopes.

Because of that you need to use lowpass filtering on taller maps if you are using low bitdepth heightmaps. Even then it's not some miracle cure, I've never met an experienced mapper that didn't have a love/hate relationship with it.

*** I'm not saying FA didn't use lowpass. I'm ONLY talking to how mapconv interacts with heightmaps. If you disagree with what I said, you are wrong, and lets not fight about it

***

LOrDo · Post by **LOrDo** » 29 Mar 2006, 17:35

It looks alot like that old OTA map, King of the Hill, cept a diffrent texture.

Post by **jcnossen** » 29 Mar 2006, 18:55

new map format supports 16 bit heightmaps

Well not my last demo, but my current version does.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 29 Mar 2006, 19:07

mother wrote:
Das Bruce wrote:How much would it take to implement a 32bit greyscale heightmap?
The heightmap itself has 16 bits of resolution, and mapconv will accept a 16bit raw format heightmap... I really doubt we're going to be needing more than 65,536 distinct levels.

The challenge is getting a 16bit raw heightmap. [Maybe not as tough a challenge as a 32bit greyscale format though.]

FA was on the right track... If you are using a BMP heightmap you've got 256 equally spaced height levels. At a 1024 height range you end up with a height difference of 4 for adjacent grey levels. This will tend to leave you with steppes instead of <45deg slopes.

Because of that you need to use lowpass filtering on taller maps if you are using low bitdepth heightmaps. Even then it's not some miracle cure, I've never met an experienced mapper that didn't have a love/hate relationship with it.

*** I'm not saying FA didn't use lowpass. I'm ONLY talking to how mapconv interacts with heightmaps. If you disagree with what I said, you are wrong, and lets not fight about it ***

100% Correct

Edit:
Forgot to ask... Can mapconv accept RAW files? If so, that would make my life much easier.

mother · Post by **mother** » 29 Mar 2006, 19:39

Forboding Angel wrote: Forgot to ask... Can mapconv accept RAW files? If so, that would make my life much easier.

I've never tried it but yes it should accept 16bit RAW for the heightmap.

Edit: It should also support 24bpp RAW for the texture and metal maps... The advantage for these files is rather non-obvious to me though.

Spring RTS Engine

.:New Map:. Koth

.:New Map:. Koth