AATA Beta 0.9

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 20 Mar 2006, 04:47

Then release it and we'll fix the balance issues in the rebuild based on feedback.

Das Bruce · Post by **Das Bruce** » 20 Mar 2006, 06:31

Are we talking diet or regular versions here?

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 20 Mar 2006, 06:38

Regular.

As far as I'm concerned, the "diet" or "ASS" version is a joke to make fun of your mod. Then again, I don't make the decisions around here.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 20 Mar 2006, 06:56

Besides, the units aren't all that confusing - even I was able to sort them out after a few games, which is more than what can be said for OTA units.

In the meantime, a German tank column in the desert, led off by the mighty Tiger II.

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 20 Mar 2006, 11:24

Jesus are we in desperate needs for new models and textures... I didn't even know that was a fuckin Tiger II lol...

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 20 Mar 2006, 11:49

Felix the Cat wrote:Regular.

As far as I'm concerned, the "diet" or "ASS" version is a joke to make fun of your mod. Then again, I don't make the decisions around here.

It's no joke - but it lies much closer to AATA than to Spring:43. Just trimming out as many very very similar units as possible without effecting realism.

So instead of being faced with 5 or 6 units that have a similar role, you might have 4, with very defined roles and abilities.

It's as much about increasing the difference between units as anything else.

Das Bruce · Post by **Das Bruce** » 20 Mar 2006, 20:44

SpikedHelmet wrote:Jesus are we in desperate needs for new models and textures... I didn't even know that was a fuckin Tiger II lol...

If I make some german ones will you consider using them?

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 20 Mar 2006, 21:52

Does thois mean youve stopped making :43?

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 20 Mar 2006, 22:32

The current models are hard to tell when you're not in a top down position, since they were built with OTA in mind. Low angled shot isn't where they shine the most, my fault.

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 21 Mar 2006, 02:01

FLOZi wrote:
Felix the Cat wrote:Regular.

As far as I'm concerned, the "diet" or "ASS" version is a joke to make fun of your mod. Then again, I don't make the decisions around here.
It's no joke - but it lies much closer to AATA than to Spring:43. Just trimming out as many very very similar units as possible without effecting realism.

So instead of being faced with 5 or 6 units that have a similar role, you might have 4, with very defined roles and abilities.

It's as much about increasing the difference between units as anything else.

The one that we're working on at the moment? I got the impression that it was going to be THE AATA, and definitely got the impression from SH's unit list that it isn't at all "diet" but simply "rebalanced and rebuilt".

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 21 Mar 2006, 06:16

Das Bruce wrote:
SpikedHelmet wrote:Jesus are we in desperate needs for new models and textures... I didn't even know that was a fuckin Tiger II lol...
If I make some german ones will you consider using them?

I don't see why not, as long as they're good. What I'd like to do is keep them similar to what we have now (albeit better) and have better scripting animation, so that they very visibly lift their rifles up to their shoulders to fire, and do other things rather than the archaic animations we have for most things now.

Das Bruce · Post by **Das Bruce** » 21 Mar 2006, 06:29

What sort of poly counts are you looking for?

Interesting website...http://www.panzer.punkt.pl/strony_www/profile.htm

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 21 Mar 2006, 06:44

1000-2000 or so.

Das Bruce · Post by **Das Bruce** » 21 Mar 2006, 07:35

Pretty much whatever it takes to make it look good then?

mecha · Post by **mecha** » 21 Mar 2006, 11:25

*bump* release?

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 21 Mar 2006, 11:38

SpikedHelmet wrote:1000-2000 or so.

Too many.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 21 Mar 2006, 11:47

Not if its s3o. Please look at the performance of NanoBlobs 0.31b before making judgements. It's just fine, and the units average about 1200 tris or so.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 21 Mar 2006, 13:14

Argh, I'd like to know for sure about your experiments with high poly stuff; do you have any hard facts that you could share? Because I modelled an ATST that was approximately 2500 faces; but we figured it was far too face heavy, and cut it down extremely (and have considered a remodelling, which would be painful considering the amount of time I've put into it).

I think it is reasonably good game design habit to aim as low as you can with polies, and still get as much detail as you can in. For example, it wouldn't be worth putting a little bit more detail on a unit for 500 extra polies. Fortunately, given the nature of these armour plated vehicles, keeping them reasonably low poly shouldn't be too difficult. You don't need to model every hatch and lever; much of it can be textured with the exact same effect.

I agree with streamlining AATA's build tree, so that units have more defined roles within the game. I think it will make balancing a lot easier for you guys, and make interpreting and playing the game a lot easier for us.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 21 Mar 2006, 13:30

<Shrugs> try out the newest beta release of NanoBlobs. If you are not convinced that high performance is possible without sacrificing quality at that point, then you either have a very low-end rig, in which case anything is going to run poorly, or you just have very odd ideas about what high performance means. Basically... Spring's renderer is pretty efficient and fast.

If you use S3Os, and use proper, tri-based modeling methods, instead of leaving quads intact (this is easily fixed, btw- LithUnwrap and UvMapper can both break up quads into tris)... you're fine. 2500 tris (let alone quads, bleah) is a bit on the high side, for a unit that's intended to be spammed- when I saw that model, it looked like it was quads... which Spring will break into two tris, and then two more, because it renders quads double-sided (which, it seems, is something that people are having a hard time wrapping their brains around)... so it'd be more like 10,000 tris come the render passes, which is bloody ridiculous. At any rate, that model looks like 5000 tris, not 2500, but even at 2500 it's excessive detail- when you're at playing-level zoom, you'll never even see 90% of the details. Kinda pointless, except for screens

So for that particular model, my advice is brutal and to the point: rebuild it. Scrap it and start from Go, and concentrate your tris in the few detail areas that really demand it. I'll bet I could do a decent ATST in 1000 or so tris pretty easily- it's a frickin' cuboid with legs

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 21 Mar 2006, 17:45

Argh wrote:Not if its s3o. Please look at the performance of NanoBlobs 0.31b before making judgements. It's just fine, and the units average about 1200 tris or so.

For you, perhaps. Could have sworn I'd seen a few posts about getting bogged down.

And anyway, our units are mostly blocky and slopey tanks, not pretty spider-cones.

It's foolish to pour on polies where they are not needed.

edit: My objection is more to the figure of 2000, which if you think 2500 is too many for an AT-ST you will hopefully agree that 2000 is far too many for say a PzIV which you might quite likely have a hundred of ingame.

Spring RTS Engine

AATA Beta 0.9