NanoBlobs 0.41 + NTAI 8.0.

NanoBlobs 0.41 + NTAI 8.0.

WolfeGames and projects headed by Argh.

Moderators: Moderators, Content Developer

Post Reply
User avatar
Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

NanoBlobs 0.41 + NTAI 8.0.

Post by Argh »

Image

This is the comment/suggestion thread for NanoBlobs 0.40(final).

Go here to download it.

And go here to download our very own custom map, NanoArenaV2.


The Manual

1. What is NanoBlobs?

NanoBlobs is, basically, an experimental game design, based on Von Neumann machine concepts. It started off as an experiment to develop a game that an AI could play perfectly, without cheating. Since that time, it has evolved into more and more complex gameplay, and it is a reasonably interesting game in its own right. I've used this as my warm-up project for Spring, and (especially if I can find the right kinds of help) I will be releasing other great games for this engine.

I want to take a moment and thank two of the AI developers, who basically helped NanoBlobs come about, by providing AI support for me that allows me to test the private builds: Alantai Firestar and Krogothe. Both of them have helped development tremendously with their support for the mod, and I really appreciate the work they've put into things. Alantai, especially, helped 0.3 come into existence, and has added a lot've new functionality to NTAI basically to support NanoBlobs (I should say that better than 90% of it could support other mods, too, and I hope that other mod developers sit down with NTAI and develop good profiles/buildtrees/configs for their mods).

2. This is really weird. How do I play it?

For those of you who have very little RTS experience outside of playing AA/OTA/XTA, NanoBlobs may seem like a very strange experience. In some ways, this is not like any other RTS ever made, at least to my knowledge. And you will just have to learn quite a few things the hard way. However, here are some basic tips:

A. You do not gather resources in NanoBlobs. Instead, you build more Sheep. Sheep make Energy and Metal. Units cost Energy, Metal and WorkerTime, and they may need to "eat" Metal and Energy during play. So, if your factories are putting out units slowly, you may need to build more Sheep.

In addition, Sheep can make certain units, just like Lords can- only more slowly. They can also Guard your AutoFacs (your unit-making factories) and speed up their production. This can greatly increase their output over time.

B. Your Lord is an extremely powerful and important unit. It has a fairly powerful weapon, is pretty durable, and can build a very long way away from itself. Losing your Lord, even if it doesn't mean you've lost the game, is a terrible thing, because the Lord is the most versitile and useful unit you possess. Good use of your Lord is mandatory.

C. In some RTS games, it is very possible to build a base, surround it with defenses, and become practically invulnerable. This does not work in NanoBlobs, and if you do not wish to lose... don't try it! While there are static defenses in the game, they are relatively weak against certain types of enemies, and can be overrun fairly easily by any skillful opponant.

So, since defense isn't a good long-term option... attack! In NanoBlobs, controlling the map is essential to survival. Prevent the enemy from gaining control over the ground, and you will invariably win over time, as you can get more of your forces into contact with the enemy than he/she can get in contact with you, increasing his/her rate of attrition. This is called "winning".

There are other routes to victory, but this is the classic method. Build enough AutoFacs and Sheep to support huge, disposable armies, and then send them to the enemy in constant streams, to wear them down and keep them bottled up in their base. Meanwhile, build more AutoFacs and Sheep, and pile on more and more pressure... until the enemy breaks under the strain.

Does that mean there's no finesse to NanoBlobs? On the contrary. While you can build the exact same units your opponant can... it's the amount of each type, how they're being used, and where you choose to control small groups (micro-management) that makes the major difference in most games. How you use the units makes a huge difference.

So... let's go through the units.

Lord: The Lord is your "commander", and you only get one. The Lord is equipped with a fairly powerful weapon, and can build at extreme distances away from itself. It can also build a wider variety of objects than anything else. Used wisely, the Lord makes a huge difference in the game.

Sheep: the Sheep is a totally defenseless, easily-killed unit, that can make resources and can build certain things. It moves at a moderate speed.

AutoFac: AutoFacs are automated factories (hence the name). Use the Move/Patrol functions, plus the Repeat ON features (see the Spring manual for more details) to set up AutoFacs to send out large numbers of the units you want. It is usually more effective to build one type of unit at a given AutoFac, but feel free to experiment.

Wolf: Wolves are the smallest, weakest attack units. They are fast, bird-like robots that have machineguns attached to their bodies. They are very dangerous in large numbers, can fly over water, can cross steep obstacles, and can see farther than most other units. In addition, they do not show up on radar. Wolves are very dangerous if they aren't countered effectively. The best counter to Wolves in this version of NanoBlobs is Archers.

Archer: Archers are rocket-firing robots that look like ambulatory end-tables. They are easily killed, and not terribly fast. However, they fire rockets with a very long range, which do moderate amounts of damage to whatever they hit. Many Archers, firing together, can kill anything in the game fairly quickly, and they far outrange almost everything else. The best counter to Archers in this version of NanoBlobs is Knights.

Knight: Knights are auto-healing units. This means that, if not killed, they rapidly regain lost health. Knights are fairly fast, moderately durable, and have a flamethrower that will kill most units very rapidly. They are very dangerous in packs, and can gut a base in less than 30 seconds if even a few get loose behind your defenses. The best counter to Knights, in this version of NanoBlobs, is to pair a SpireRook with a Holder. Large numbers of Archers will also work, however the Knights will win on attrition costs. Wolves lose on attrition costs, unless massed. All other units lose against Knights.

SpireRook: The backbone of a defensive perimeter, SpireRooks are very slow-moving units with a fairly powerful green laser. While they may seem only slightly useful at first, try building multiples of them and siting them near each other- they become more and more effective. Paired with Holders, they can form very impressive defensive lines.

SquareRook: The SquareRook is a slow-moving but powerful offensive/defensive unit. With a powerful main gun and rocket launcher, SquareRooks take forever to build, but can contribute to defenses and offenses alike. However, they should be supported, at a minimum, with streams of Wolves to provide targeting data, and preferably should be suported with streams of Wolves, Knights and Archers- a true, multi-dimensional assault force.

Holder: The Holder is basically just a simple turret. It does moderate damage to most units, but is very weak against Spire and Square Rooks. It fires fairly quickly, however, and a few Holders firing together can kill Knights. Holders with SpireRooks make a good defense.[/img]
Last edited by Argh on 16 May 2006, 08:24, edited 10 times in total.
User avatar
Das Bruce
Posts: 3544
Joined: 23 Nov 2005, 06:16

Post by Das Bruce »

Now to see what you've done to my poor model. ^_^
User avatar
Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Post by Argh »

Ah... don't worry, it's not in yet. Something about "game-balancing a Demon" ;)
User avatar
Mars Keeper
Posts: 240
Joined: 25 Jan 2005, 21:00

Post by Mars Keeper »

Yay! Nanoblobs ftw =D


Time to test it out and see how it works.
User avatar
Das Bruce
Posts: 3544
Joined: 23 Nov 2005, 06:16

Post by Das Bruce »

No wreckages?
User avatar
Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Post by Argh »

No wreckages.
User avatar
Das Bruce
Posts: 3544
Joined: 23 Nov 2005, 06:16

Post by Das Bruce »

Not even for the big units?
User avatar
NOiZE
Balanced Annihilation Developer
Posts: 3984
Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 19:29

Post by NOiZE »

Really nice stuffs :-)

Things that could improve imo

The autofac should have a smaller footprint, and pehaps be moveable, or it should hav some stuff on the ground too.

The missles from the archer don't leave a smoke trail

The texture on top of the holder looks a bit odd.

And the square root turns too fast.
User avatar
Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Post by Argh »

The autofac should have a smaller footprint, and pehaps be moveable, or it should hav some stuff on the ground too.
The footprint is set as large as it is to allow you to select it while making units. Can't make it mobile, because then units built wouldnt' have a path, etc., nor could you set repeats. Been asking for better mobiles building mobiles, but that's not my department.
The missles from the archer don't leave a smoke trail
Again, that's an engine thing. They're technically ballistic projectiles, and Spring doesn't currently allow me to attach smoketrails to such things. Which is too bad.
The texture on top of the holder looks a bit odd.
Odd? Do you have reflectivity on?
And the square root turns too fast.
Agreed. Fixed.
User avatar
Drone_Fragger
Posts: 1341
Joined: 04 Dec 2005, 15:49

Post by Drone_Fragger »

Zomg! this is over 32 times larger than nanoblobs 0.2!










Meh. Who cares? ^-^
User avatar
Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Post by Argh »

Well, yes. The code part is small, but the content size of things has... grown. That's the price for pretty graphics- I could make it about one-third size by dropping the skins to 512s, but I like how pretty things are...
User avatar
Drone_Fragger
Posts: 1341
Joined: 04 Dec 2005, 15:49

Post by Drone_Fragger »

Nah they aree fiune :D
User avatar
Rimburner
Posts: 18
Joined: 02 May 2005, 14:01

Sheep

Post by Rimburner »

Are the sheep meant to chain explode if they're in blocks? I find it takes forever to make them any other way than blocks but as soon as something hits them the whole field is gone...

*ponders the possibility of DT or walls*

Edit - Sorry, was thinking of v.02
User avatar
Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Post by Argh »

Well, here's what I think, at the moment:

1. Knights aren't quite as time-efficient as they should be. They should either take a bit less damage from Archers, or be faster to build. They work just fine, if you can bunch them, but that's the tricky part, at their current build time.

2. Spire Rooks may need a slight boost to AutoHeal, so that they are a bit more effective on defense.

3. Square Rooks aren't effective offensive units. They work great on defense, though. If you sit ALL DAY, then they'll eventually work on offense, but that's not very much fun. Too slow. I'm going to build Something Else to serve as an offensive unit. Maybe hovertank with a red-beam laser

4. I feel like Lords need more ways to directly intervene in combat, so that it's more worth risking them up front. I was encouraged to see people using them agressively, but I think I can do better on this issue.

5. I feel like we really need a decisive unit, like the Demon, to allow people to finally get past each other in late game. While playing for a draw is actually pretty hard, I was able to hold off two people today for quite some time, simply by putting enough spam in their way. There needs to be a way to counter spam in general better, or I need the equivalent of a Nuke to get things over. Given my bent for wholesale death and destruction... I say, finish the Demon, and give people a way to massacre the hordes ;)

6. I think there might be a good reason to make a projectile-shield unit to protect attack clusters against Archers and other spam-fire units. Maybe call it the Turtle or whatever.

7. The Lord's weapon is kewl, but does strange things on cliffs. Must look into that at some point...

Early play is really razor sharp. I lost one game very quickly because I did not put up Wolves quickly on Ashap. A lot've players are trying to figure out early defense on small maps- one of the secrets against Wolf attack is that Wolves sitting still will almost always own Wolves that are on the move. Add in the Lord, and so long as you don't get flanked and lose your Sheep, you're ok. Still, I'm tempted to make a Wolf counter that is useless later on. Getting rush-killed in the first minute (seriously, for those who haven't played- it moves FAST on small maps) isn't much fun. I'll think about it.
User avatar
Cheesecan
Posts: 1571
Joined: 07 Feb 2005, 21:30

Post by Cheesecan »

Couldn't resist taking some screens of this perty mod..
Cute sheep
Rook water reflection redux
Coastal defense
My new wallpaper
Teh sweetar reflections

Awesome mod, keep it up. ;)
User avatar
altaric
Posts: 185
Joined: 28 Oct 2005, 10:07

Post by altaric »

ok.. let me explain why version 0.2 is beer than 0.3

0.2 was a mod fun where games last 5 minutes max
you get 200 units in 5 minutes
you loose 200 units in 1 minute

units :
zipper is a scout unit or rush anythink pwns it
knight is anti every bi units : lord, overlord, rook but as no armor therfore a rook owns 10 knights
rook : the mobile tower, pwns zippers and knights it's the meatshield (meat ? :)
overord : a rook armor with knight weapon only owned by lord hat floods him with knights overlords
archer: anti rooks (river of rooks)
lord : the builder, weak aainst everything and shitty weapon (well for it's price) can produce lords

0.3 has new models that loks better i agree

unit
lord : same as sheep with dgun and 10 times better nano gun
little rook : a gimpy thing kills a unit (not too big)per 5 seconds while factories make 1 per sec
square rook : a bertha with big armor and low speed andan archer gun
tower : it's just a bertha : use it only against rooks
archer : couldn't realy test it
sheep : simple builder
zipper : 2nd best unit : fast, good weapon, cheap owned by knight
knight : the allmighty unit : only lord and knights can beat it
factory : can make sheeps ! exit on sides (which is ood cuz most maps ae N vs S)

know this is clear
in v0.3
you build factories to make endless sheeps
you porc like hell to resist the knights that come to kill you
you build facories to make knights (exit set in enemy"s base)
you win

you can play it on maps which size is 8x8 to 12x12
average game length : 10-15 minutes (a little quicker than a speed metal game)

in v0.2
many strategies are possible

you can play it on maps which size is 3x3 to 10x10
average game length : 2-5 minutes unbeaten dynamism


sorry to say that but the only god thing in 0.3 is
sheep produce 200 instead of 100
new models
rook can be killed (it is just useless now)
unit limit is necessery only after 3 minutes rather than 1 for 0.2
Last edited by altaric on 19 Mar 2006, 15:02, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
altaric
Posts: 185
Joined: 28 Oct 2005, 10:07

Post by altaric »

just had a crash, dunno if it's because of the mod :

---------------------------
Fatal Error
---------------------------
Access violation - no RTTI data!
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

never had it before
had 2 factories overlaping
1st couldn't build was was autodestructing 2nd and a zipper was shooting at it
can't be more precise on the circonstances
User avatar
Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Post by Argh »

Thanks for taking the time to give your opinion. This would be where I stand on things:

1. The Knight/Rook balance in 0.2 was bad. Really bad. If you could get enough Rooks up, then you didn't need to build Knights any more. The only thing stopping the pure Rook tactics was the chain-reaction explosions, which just about everybody thought were lame. Don't ask me to put that back in- nobody liked it. When I took out chain-reaction explosions, I immediately saw that Rooks were insanely unbalanced in their format, and changed them to suit the new game. In many ways, this created other challenges, which is why many things are different from 0.2 to 0.3.

In 0.3, Knights still will tear up a base fairly quickly, but they don't have the "magic bullet" effect they did in 0.2, where one loose Knight could win the game. I'm not sure if this is good or bad yet, so I'm still open to opinions on this topic. Knights still own most things very quickly, though.

2. If you haven't used Archers, then you don't understand the mod. They effectively counter Rooks, Knights and absolutely smear Wolves.

3. If you're afraid of Knights, then you're doing something wrong. Knights are easily countered, with a variety of tactics. If anything, I think they might be too ineffective, for their time-costs.

4. People seem to prefer longer game formats instead of quickies. Otherwise, why does everybody play AA, instead of 0.2, where a typical game lasts up to an hour? While I'd have to agree that 0.2 was faster to resolution, it didn't seem to be something people wanted to play on a regular basis. I think that the fact that play developed so quickly was one of the reasons, along with the very rough-looking graphics.

5. I'd have to agree that an Overlord/Demon equivalent is needed. It was put into 0.2 to provide some extra "zing" for end-game resolution, and I feel like that's sorely missing from 0.3b. The SquareRook doesn't cut it, and was pretty much a dead end. I'll leave it in, but it's pretty clearly not the offensive weapon it was supposed to be.

Overall, I guess I think that the changes were a good thing. The only things that I really feel are missing are that there just aren't very many ways to paper-rock-scissors through micro, on larger maps. On smaller maps, I think that the balance is actually pretty good- I built this mod for smaller maps, and on an 8X8 (Ashap Plateau size) it works really well. On a 3X3, it should be fine, but I doubt that you'd ever get much of the economy rolling before things ended.

Next time, instead of using an AutoFact to spam Sheep, build 6 Sheep and then build four Wolves to guard you against first rushes, then an AutoFac to spam Archers, and then build a pair of SpireRooks- and watch what happens to people rushing Knights- it won't be pretty. I guess what I'm mainly trying to say here is that from what I'm reading, vs. what I saw in the 8+ games against multiple people I just played... you just don't get the mod's new balance yet.
User avatar
Zoombie
Posts: 6149
Joined: 15 Mar 2005, 07:08

Post by Zoombie »

Hurra for Nanoblobs. I remember the other version, and now i will try this one out!

Tell you more soon:
User avatar
AF
AI Developer
Posts: 20687
Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Post by AF »

You should make the new offensive weapon or 'demon' amphibious.
Post Reply

Return to “Argh's Projects”