Internationalization of the Wiki

EdvonSchleck · Post by **EdvonSchleck** » 12 Mar 2006, 18:39

There are already efforts to translate parts of the wiki, and as a German Spring fan I really appreciate it (I understand English, but a lot of my fellow countrymen do not, and I really think we can reach greater audience with a multilanguage wiki).

So today I set out to translate a few pages and will do as much as I can in the next weeks, but since the non-English pages will probably always be incomplete, it is important to set interlanguage-links easily (eg. to find the corresponding English page to your out-dated German page, or find out there's a translation into your native language after you've tried to understand the English article without success).

For that purpose, I've made a small template with the following syntax
{{lang | country | Page | Description}}, e.g.
{{lang | Germany | Hauptseite | Die Hauptseite auf Deutsch}}
and what it does is, it takes the first argument and finds the flag icon to it (like Germany_flag.gif, as uploaded by Fnordia), then the name of the non-English page (here that's main page), and then a description (this one says the main page in German). The result can be seen here: http://taspring.clan-sy.com/wiki/User:EdvonSchleck
It'd be great if you looked at it and say if it's okay or why not, so that I (and others) may add it to translated pages.

Oh, and to Fnordia: I've tried to make a USA-flag that looks kinda like your flags, but if you could make one that looks exactly like them, it'd be great.

AF · Post by AF » 12 Mar 2006, 18:50

I'd prefer it if it was a brittish/english flag for the english language versus a flag for a coutnry that isnt even on the same continent.

Also I think its best putting francais there instead of something french for now, and starting a poll to find out what languages users speak so we can target a main audience..

EdvonSchleck · Post by **EdvonSchleck** » 12 Mar 2006, 19:02

A British flag is probably better, I hope that Fnordia can provide one.

I've changed that french thing (but please change it if it's wrong, it's just a wild guess, my french sucks).

I don't really think we need a poll. If somebody did a translation into, say, spanish he just needs do do another {{lang|Spain|spanish-page|description}} link on the pages of the other languages (and make a Spain_flag.gif). What I want to say, if theres somebody willing to to work on the wiki in whatever language, it's incorporated easily. But still, it'd be interesting to see what languages are wished for. I just don't think that would lead to a concentrated effort towards those languages.

Anyway, how do you start a poll on an existing thread?

BvDorp · Post by **BvDorp** » 12 Mar 2006, 20:36

If you really want internationalization, like this thread's topic suggests, learn English :) it's not that difficult, and will help greatly in further life..

Dont u guys learn some good English at school?

EdvonSchleck · Post by **EdvonSchleck** » 12 Mar 2006, 21:10

Thanks a lot for your helpful reply, BwDorp ...

Of course we do learn English at school. I'm not arguing for a multilanguage forum or something, but for multilanguage documentation, meaning sth. optional (doesn't require additional effort for those who use it already) that won't harm noone as it doesn't hamper communication (like people posting here without being able to express themselves in English).

You know as well as me that the Dutch, the Scandinavians etc. do speak English pretty well as a rule, and so do most of the Germans, but if you've been to say Italy or Spain, you probably have noticed that knowledge of the English language is not too widespread. Or to to Eastern European countries: Many students I've met there speak German a lot better then English.

Well, what I want to point out is it's no harm, people habe already begun to translate parts of the wiki, so it seems important to some people, and don't think we need a discussion if people not knowing English are stupid or such, but how we can reach them.

Post by **jcnossen** » 12 Mar 2006, 21:43

I think it's going to be very hard though, the english wiki is already outdated most of the time (well some parts are) so keeping other languages up to date is even harder. I suppose this is only about translating the pages for users?
Maybe a better idea would be to set up a german taspring portal, much like the french site there is already. After all you need to be able to read a lot of english before you can even find the proper german wiki pages

BvDorp · Post by **BvDorp** » 13 Mar 2006, 00:16

Zaph has some point here :)

Srry about me sounding a bit harsh, was more meant just to poke ya

ofc any extension to ppl who aren't able to get the right info atm is useful :) so thnx

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 13 Mar 2006, 01:25

I dont see the harm in trying but I agree with zaph, this is a MAJOR project. Having a fully translated wiki is beyond the scope of anything we would have imagined because wiki's are so malleable and are changing and being updated constatly. We could probably run babelfish filters but in it's own right that would be a pretty weak solution.

The french link on the wiki links to a comprehensive french TAS gameplay tutorial. I think trying to copy that standard would be the most effective, since it will be alot easier to pull valuable information from the wiki and rewrite it then to translate the wiki in full.

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 13 Mar 2006, 02:10

EdvonSchleck wrote:Oh, and to Fnordia: I've tried to make a USA-flag that looks kinda like your flags, but if you could make one that looks exactly like them, it'd be great.

AF wrote:I'd prefer it if it was a brittish/english flag for the english language versus a flag for a coutnry that isnt even on the same continent...

Compromise and put up an Australian flag

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 13 Mar 2006, 04:06

AF wrote:I'd prefer it if it was a brittish/english flag for the english language versus a flag for a coutnry that isnt even on the same continent.

Also I think its best putting francais there instead of something french for now, and starting a poll to find out what languages users speak so we can target a main audience..

It's not as if the United States is the largest English-speaking country in the world, now is it? This is the 21st century, not the 19th. The age of American (cultural) imperialism, not British (political) imperialism. A US flag is appropriate.

Das Bruce · Post by **Das Bruce** » 13 Mar 2006, 04:10

English language orriginated from England.

You can make an Americanish version with your flag if you want, and do stupid things like spell colour without a 'u'.

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 13 Mar 2006, 04:25

Das Bruce wrote:English language orriginated from England.

You can make an Americanish version with your flag if you want, and do stupid things like spell colour without a 'u'.

Did you know that if you totaled the money saved on ink by ommitting irrelevant u's, you'd have almost enough to buy a new Mercedes?

Actually, I made that up. It'd be interesting to see how much the US economy saves each year because of our superior spelling. :-D

Das Bruce · Post by **Das Bruce** » 13 Mar 2006, 04:40

According to Top Gear a mustache or however the hell you spell it, stupid french, adds 15 pounds a year to your petrol bill.

EdvonSchleck · Post by **EdvonSchleck** » 13 Mar 2006, 14:05

SwiftSpear wrote:I dont see the harm in trying but I agree with zaph, this is a MAJOR project. Having a fully translated wiki is beyond the scope of anything we would have imagined

That's true. But I see the hole point of the wiki in *slowly* creating a documentation that becomes final a some point or another, so I just translate pages that are pretty much final (like using Spring). I agree that there's no point in translating map making or development stuff cause that's constantly being changed.

So, (hoping to get the topic back) is that template thingie OK for use (and I don't care about the USA/british/aussi/canadian flag, that can be changed at any time)?

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » 13 Mar 2006, 14:17

I dont see any problems with it. Personally I would like a British flag. Im not even British (bloody poms), but English did start round there somewhere, so it may as well be British.

AF · Post by AF » 13 Mar 2006, 21:21

Brittish are the first english speakers of anywhere, we spawned the untied states before it left us, and the USA doesnt do english it uses faulty brittish english because they couldnt be arsed spelling their dictionaries properly when they crosed the atlantic.

I dont think that the current status of america is an excuse for the american flag to portray a language that didnt originate on the same continent, in a country where most people dont even know the difference between a noun a verb and an adjective.

It's a done deal anyways, any attempts to change the brittish flag to an american one or any flag other than the brittish or english flasg will be reversed by me unless an american version sits alongside the englihs version.

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 13 Mar 2006, 22:17

AF wrote: an american version sits alongside the englihs version.

Sounds like an acceptable compromise.

"American" English spelling was pretty much the same as British English spelling until Noah Webster came along and published Webster's Dictionary, which made many of the changes that survive until today. He wanted America to have a unique spelling and language to distinguish it from the UK, because, naturally, we wanted nothing to do with the dang Brits. So that clears that up.

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 13 Mar 2006, 23:51

so, you guys want to have an "American" version of the Wiki alongside of an "English" version of the wiki?!
Am I the only one who think that this poppycock idea is a bit over the edge?

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 14 Mar 2006, 02:24

FizWizz wrote:so, you guys want to have an "American" version of the Wiki alongside of an "English" version of the wiki?!
Am I the only one who think that this poppycock idea is a bit over the edge?

hehe.

Nah, I was assuming that AF was suggesting having the US and British flags both refer to the wiki in English.

Being a terminally ethnocentric American, I'd view the one in "The Queen's English" as the foreign language

SeanHeron · Post by **SeanHeron** » 14 Mar 2006, 09:48

First of all : Hi EdvonSchleck ! Cool to see there are some germans that appreciate the bit of work I├é┬┤ve done :) . And even better to see your putting in some work yourself !

But now to most of the others: After hijacking this thread again, I would politely ask you to move your discussion here ? Thank you ever so much :D .

OK back to topic: I think your template is really good, definetly use it. Actually, I think I├é┬┤ll just insert it now :) . If you want me to proof read any pages your translating (I├é┬┤m a native english and german spreaker) just give me a hint on my talk page. Oh and if there├é┬┤s any page you think should be translated fast, same :D .

About setting up a german Spring site. Not a bad idea, but I think it would be better to keep everything together (and personally I├é┬┤d prefer having the wiki main page as the site home page. From there you could link to the news [current site homepage] etc.)
Also about it being too much bother to translate everything: let that be our problem :D . I also have to disagree with the translated pages being out of date: obviously I├é┬┤m not translating sentence for sentence, but updating the content at the same time :) .

Spring RTS Engine

Internationalization of the Wiki

Internationalization of the Wiki