Lame Tactics - a History and Analysis

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 07 Mar 2006, 19:49

I'd guess the original, because if you have more comms in AA or something only the original matters.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 07 Mar 2006, 19:54

nope its when both are dead.
in AA if ur ally gives u com u effectively get 'another life' i.e. u can lose one of them
likewise in teh blobs, its not over till the last commander falls ^^

Ritz Grimarren · Post by **Ritz Grimarren** » 07 Mar 2006, 19:55

I played a comm=death team-game where one of my team-mates timed out so I used the .take command to acquire his units, including his commander. I latter used the extra commander to comm-bomb the main fortifications of an enemy, but since I still had my original, it didn't give me any problems.

jellyman · Post by **jellyman** » 12 Mar 2006, 00:10

Just a thought on com-napping. Is it possible to change transports so that if the transport is blown up, it damages the units inside by a certain amount. A com would then have a good chance of survival. Of course in com ends game you could com nap and then offload the com somewhere were you are guaranteed to kill it.

At least for a hover com napping the hover would have to be able to grab the com, turn around and get out without being blown up.

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 12 Mar 2006, 00:18

Hovertransports are unblanced in terms of com napping. So are armed units transports.

Cadyr are working on it... i think. He should be, many is complaining.

Fun fact: If you d-gun a hover transport while it's napping you, you're com will be hanging in midair stunned.

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 12 Mar 2006, 01:15

The hover trans is FINE, people just need to learn to get their commander AWAY from the front line or cloak him or something with that thing comes around... besides, it cant really do much BESSDIES pick up your comm and a peewee or two; it can't pick up static defenses or anything

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 12 Mar 2006, 01:27

Dragon45 wrote:The hover trans is FINE, people just need to learn to get their commander AWAY from the front line or cloak him or something with that thing comes around... besides, it cant really do much BESSDIES pick up your comm and a peewee or two; it can't pick up static defenses or anything

Not many people have enough energy to cloak their comm 15 minutes into the game.

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 12 Mar 2006, 03:26

Dragon45 wrote:The hover trans is FINE, people just need to learn to get their commander AWAY from the front line or cloak him or something with that thing comes around... besides, it cant really do much BESSDIES pick up your comm and a peewee or two; it can't pick up static defenses or anything

The hover transport is so fast and has such long reach that I'd better have my commander cowering in a hidden corner of the map not doing anything by 10 minutes in if I suspect hover transport rushes.

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 12 Mar 2006, 05:05

The hover lab is probably one of the most inefficient labs in the game- lets say you're playing Small Divide and the enemy cranks out a hover lab... what do you think that just did to their offensive capability and their ability to build defenses? That 2k metal or whatever just went into something that will build only ONE kind of unit, ever (anacondas on Small divide?), the hover trans (presumably).

So now they spent 2k metal where *you* can spend that same 2k metal either techhing up or building an air lab or whatever and gaining an offensive advantage...

It's not like hover transports magically appear for free, you know, there's advantages of using it and not using it as an offensive unit... if you can't take advantage of your opponent's gap in offensive/defensive expansion capiblity in time... then get better

And jeez, just walk the damn commander away... if you have any sort of defensive line up, then you have a dragon's eye or two at the perimeter spotting, letting you know what's coming... as soon as you see the damn bear, just get your commander the hell out of there!

Next you'll be telling me that too many people are Hulk rushing, so Hulks should be nerfed

Zenka · Post by **Zenka** » 12 Mar 2006, 08:14

Norf, I went hovers on small divide when my k-bot lab was destroyed and won (mostly by my allies, but still). Wombads strangely works wonderfull.

Bears are D-gunnable, but hard. Making the arm shorter solves the entire comnaping stuff and doesn't make it useless for it's duty.
And ofcoruse you can't walk you commander away since it is too slow. Not that hover trans are fast, nor manouverable, they are capable of napping a running comm.

Doxs · Post by **Doxs** » 12 Mar 2006, 23:07

I dont really get why the following is not implemented.

When you pick up an enemy unit, that enemy unit should continue to fire at its kidnapper from within.

If you are a roleplayer then thats what a commander or any other little unit that gets picked up should do.

Now, if the transporter dies the units inside should either die in the explotion or pop out of its belly. Again, if you roleplay, the latter should be the case since the commander or other picked up target should not be hurt by his own fire. (or should he?)

Just rambling, now please continue

Andreask · Post by **Andreask** » 13 Mar 2006, 00:29

Spring has nothing to do with role-playing.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 13 Mar 2006, 01:19

Units are hurt by thier own fire... However, I think in some cases it would be more realistic for a unit in transport to drop taking massive damage when the transport is destroyed then to just die. Comms can tolerate being punted across the map, I find it funny that a little atlas explosion and a small drop is more then they can handle. Independantly both those factors wouldn't bother a comm at all.

el_muchacho · Post by **el_muchacho** » 14 Apr 2006, 01:46

Warlord Zsinj wrote:Good to hear someone speak up about this.

I particularly agree with this bit:

Flash Tanks / Zippers / Brawlers / Thuds / AKs / Peewees / Catapults / Any Other Units that gives you comparably more for your metal investments than similar units - Caydr has rebalanced AA at least 44 times over these units, and will probably rebalance it another 50 before he decides that it's not worth the effort or murders somebody. Even TA had units that weren't perfectly balanced - every RTS beyond the level of Timed Tic Tac Toe does.
Many, many people seem to not understand this. And what is worse, apart from expecting a new iteration of a certain mod every time someone works out that something might be a bit unbalanced (rather than spending their time trying to defeat it, or use it), some people actually start advocating we return to the original Tic Tac Toe gamestyle.

... or paper/scissors/stone, which is the same.

Azu · Post by **Azu** » 14 Apr 2006, 01:48

No, paper rock scissors and tic tac toe are NOT the same. Paper rock scissors is purely luck. Tic tac toe requires a lot of skill.

Torrasque · Post by **Torrasque** » 14 Apr 2006, 02:09

Azu wrote:No, paper rock scissors and tic tac toe are NOT the same. Paper rock scissors is purely luck. Tic tac toe requires a lot of skill.

I don't think they were speaking of the game, but with analogie :
(paper rock scissors : cavalerie -> footman -> pikemen)

And to be out of subject a bit, Paper rock scissors require a lot of skill to be good.
Instead of Tic Tac Toe wich is deterministic, and once you know how to not loose, you always make draw. You just have to have a bit of memory.

Azu · Post by **Azu** » 14 Apr 2006, 02:11

I am talking about the game paper rock scissors where you all randomly choose paper rock or scissors and show each other which one you chose at the exact same time and paper beats rock beats scissors beats paper.

el_muchacho · Post by **el_muchacho** » 14 Apr 2006, 02:12

Azu wrote:No, paper rock scissors and tic tac toe are NOT the same. Paper rock scissors is purely luck. Tic tac toe requires a lot of skill.

What I meant is, perfect balance doesn't exist and cannot exist unless one skews the game into a totally artificial roks/paper/scissors gamestyle.
Then what you gain is balance, what you lose is strategic variety, and there is nothing of TA left. Better play Starcraft.
In reality, you don't want perfect balance, what you want is a balance that allows as wide an array of strategies as possible. There will always be "lame" tactics, it only reflects imaginative players. As shown in post 1, there is always an easy way to counter such tactics, and getting mad because I repeatedly lose to one of those "lame" tactics only shows my own imaginative weakness.
After all, Ulysses'Troy horse was the lamest tactics ever, wasn't it ?
Yet TA's greatness is that one can simulate this with the com+Atlas. You can also easily counter it. And you can apply and counter a lot of other imaginative tactics like this one. And it's not lame, it's great (although I also believe "com dies -> game ends" is the better game option).

Azu · Post by **Azu** » 14 Apr 2006, 02:13

Flash rushes are very very great!

Torrasque · Post by **Torrasque** » 14 Apr 2006, 02:17

Azu wrote:I am talking about the game paper rock scissors where you all randomly choose paper rock or scissors and show each other which one you chose at the exact same time and paper beats rock beats scissors beats paper.

Yeah, me too...
But forget that, I don't want to hijack this tread.

Spring RTS Engine

Lame Tactics - a History and Analysis