Absolute Annihilation: Spring 1.46

.funkymp · Post by **.funkymp** » 05 Mar 2006, 11:44

ok on the mention of metal generators - heres a example

a 5v5 on say altored divide, where your team cant get control of the middle as the other team has it, you've used all your mex spots and moho'd them, and your metal income is stupidly low at the mo so it'll take longer to build a fusion/moho maker - solution build a load of metal generators

yeah a lot of people dont use them, but they can be useful on say maps like painted desert where you cant expand any further and need a quick metal boost without wacking up fusions - moho makers

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 05 Mar 2006, 11:53

Looks promising!!

tremor change seems a bit harsh
removing the metal generators is fine imo...
also conveh should be faster!!! they cost a lot more then con kbots!!

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 05 Mar 2006, 14:28

I would leave Metal generators as they are.

What bothers me are usless con vehicles.. they cost too much and are too slow. In ota they were much faster than kbots. So give somethinkg to conveh to be on pair. I suggest some nanolathe speed, and reduced cost a bit.

Andreask · Post by **Andreask** » 05 Mar 2006, 14:59

Why nerf the Leveler ???

I rather deem it too slow, so why reduce its firing-frequency.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 05 Mar 2006, 17:26

its supposed to be slow
to counter the fact it owns all lvl1
it owns them all a bit to much atm so its being nerfer to around the level of the Janus

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 05 Mar 2006, 17:34

Min3mat wrote:its supposed to be slow
to counter the fact it owns all lvl1
it owns them all a bit to much atm so its being nerfer to around the level of the Janus

I think the Janus is more powerful than the leveller; it has longer range and does more damage. I've seen about 10 used with a 3 HLTs on altored divide, they destroyed every lvl1 attack sent at them.

Andreask · Post by **Andreask** » 05 Mar 2006, 19:31

Min3mat wrote:its supposed to be slow
to counter the fact it owns all lvl1
it owns them all a bit to much atm so its being nerfer to around the level of the Janus

Darn. I want Core├é┬┤s tanks to vanquish the Arm vehicles. Not just be on par with them.

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 05 Mar 2006, 19:33

Leveler is fine as it is O_O Argh why nerf teh Core again

It's already so slow that it dies to anything that even slightly outranges it; a wolverine can pwn a leveler if it is microed. A janus or two against a leveler is also effective. What's *not* effective is sending ten peewees in a giant mass at a leveler and hoping they will kill it...

I think this is just another case of people complaining becuase they dont knwo how to deal with it...

Molloy · Post by **Molloy** » 05 Mar 2006, 21:05

Balance issue:.

The hovercraft transport. Just got Comm napped by one. They're getting quite popular. They've got great reach, and 5k of armour! The armour is waaaaaay too high. Had two HLT firing on one and it still napped my Comm with plenty of time to spare.

Zenka · Post by **Zenka** » 05 Mar 2006, 21:09

Aye, using bears to nab comms is getting more and more common.
Not only in Day's MH games
Little less hp might be nice.
Fortunatly, since the inefficient pathfinging they require a high level of micro.

.funkymp · Post by **.funkymp** » 05 Mar 2006, 21:12

also

the level2 transport aircraft - should they be able to pick up 3 kargies and a krogtaar in one hit? because they do somehow, they can also carry 2 kroggies at once

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 05 Mar 2006, 22:31

Molloy wrote:Balance issue:.

The hovercraft transport. Just got Comm napped by one. They're getting quite popular. They've got great reach, and 5k of armour! The armour is waaaaaay too high. Had two HLT firing on one and it still napped my Comm with plenty of time to spare.

I don't think the armour is the issue, it's that they can load up moving units, unlike air transports.

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 05 Mar 2006, 23:47

I dont think they're unbalanced so much as people done know how to deal with them necesarily (remember some of the "Cheap" OTA tactics when the game was still brand new?) well enough yet.

Thin kabout it; buildinga hover plant is a huge metal expenditure when you coudl be building another L2 plant (hovers are Level 2) instead, or even an air plant or sometihng, and there's no economic increase possible (because there's no L2 hover constructor).

I think hovre transports are fine; cloak + dgun is pretty effective against them; better yet, just keep your comm away from the front lines if you see one incoming i guess

DavetheBrave · Post by **DavetheBrave** » 06 Mar 2006, 00:57

If you are removing metal generators you should at least increase the efficiency of metalmakers.

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 06 Mar 2006, 01:13

That's not oging to happen because he's not going to remove the metal gens... right Caydr?

/me waves his big axe menacingly

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 06 Mar 2006, 04:38

The reason Metal Gens became such an issue, is mostly because of the cut to the Moho-Mex's, and met-Gens are much more defensible as you can place them anywhere for income.

I mean really.. why build Mohos in hard to hold spots when you can indefinately defend or at least place Free-Met-Gens strategically anywhere you want, and for about the same costs as putting up a Moho-mex.

That kinda throws the whole point of replacing your old mines, maybe I'm just nostalgic.. meh...

chiss · Post by **chiss** » 06 Mar 2006, 05:44

I think fusion/mohomaker is a faster way to high resources than metal gens. + metal gens have 0 hp. the only thing is that, with the nerf, there is no point in traveling more than 5 feet to build a mohomex. After building the 2 mohomexs that are near your start, metal gens are better.

Molloy · Post by **Molloy** » 06 Mar 2006, 12:49

Aun wrote:
Molloy wrote:Balance issue:.

The hovercraft transport. Just got Comm napped by one. They're getting quite popular. They've got great reach, and 5k of armour! The armour is waaaaaay too high. Had two HLT firing on one and it still napped my Comm with plenty of time to spare.
I don't think the armour is the issue, it's that they can load up moving units, unlike air transports.

Yeah, thats the crux of the problem. I wouldn't mind the high armour in that case.

krogothe · Post by **krogothe** » 07 Mar 2006, 10:55

Okay, i had a game and built loads of metal gens to see whats all the fuzz about! They pay themselves off in ~3 minutes, so you could techinically double your economy every 3 mins, meaning you could easily be making a million metal/s in just one hour, provided theres enough space and unitlimit. Still, I hope you see my point that metal gens are GROSSLY unbalanced, very especially since metal makers suck so much energy in AA. I have yet to calculate it, but im pretty confident NO other energy/metal maker combo is nowhere nearly as efficient as this.
So i change my stance from:
-Remove them theyre stupid
to:
-Remove them, theyre way out of order!

Sure theyre easy to destroy and blow up hard, but we dont create uber cheap fusions with 1hp for a reason!

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 07 Mar 2006, 13:16

i made some calculations abaut MM vs MG using combined costs(e+m)

MM with fusion:

214+4985 = 5199 for 12 metal

5199/12 = 433

we need 433 rescources for making 1 metal

MG:
424 for 1.5 metal

424/1.5 = 282

we need 282 rescources for making 1 metal

We see that MG is allmost 1.5 times (or 50%) better than MM.

MG is atm great unit for economy, its only ~30% worse than moho mine.

Remove MG or increase its cost for 30%.

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation: Spring 1.46

metal gens?