Hi
I started using TA spring after downloading it on Friday.
I have a couple of questions about the AI:
Which AI is best? I'm sure there are certain settings that will be needed to get a good game out of the AI. I haven't had much luck so far. once on brazilian battlefield, one AI (not sure which one) did pretty well. most of the time, they only build a few buildings and stop.
I've been trying JC and NT ai, but I'm not sure if the NTAI from the TASPRING download is the latest one. is it?
NTAI seems to be the best from what I've read. which map should I use? which side should it be, arm or core? are there any mods that I should/shouldn't use with it? and how many AI's should there be in a match for optimum AI performance?
Thank you
AI's for lan/single player
Moderators: hoijui, Moderators
Just wait a week or two.
Just now, after the new spring version breaking compatibility, the ranking isnt quite as clear.
Before, AAI and OTAI were quite stable and able run on nearly every map.
JCAI isnt maintained anymore (and i wonder why its still there).
I cannot say anything about NTAI because i didnt touch is since 15 versions ago.
Just now, after the new spring version breaking compatibility, the ranking isnt quite as clear.
Before, AAI and OTAI were quite stable and able run on nearly every map.
JCAI isnt maintained anymore (and i wonder why its still there).
I cannot say anything about NTAI because i didnt touch is since 15 versions ago.
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Optimus Prime
- Posts: 755
- Joined: 03 Oct 2005, 14:31
as far as i saw the ntai code, its not a real ai at all. It has some abstract buildtrees which say the ai what to build. But the ai never knows what to do best at next because the programmer told it the ai when he programmed it. The ai has some random tags in it so that it seems, that it works different when plaing again the same map with the same ais, but it has no cleverness. I sure speak only about the build orders. I dont know how the attacking and defending algorithms work.
As far as i saw the aai code, i think this ai has some real ai tags like "if i have an energy lack I shall build an energysouce" and so on. Sadly the aai dont uses these ai tags very often but i think the author will put more attention to that and than i think there is much more potential in this ai because the ai is flexible and can react like a human can.
So atm the NTA will perhaps beat the AAI, but its more like a supermarioboss who jumps every time at the same position and throws his weapon every time at the same direction without knowing what to do. NTAI has atm the advantage that it has a big weapon and can jump very high
. So for the normal player its a good opponent, but you will find a way to beat this ai with ease and than the ai is broken.
I dont know anythin about the other ais...
As far as i saw the aai code, i think this ai has some real ai tags like "if i have an energy lack I shall build an energysouce" and so on. Sadly the aai dont uses these ai tags very often but i think the author will put more attention to that and than i think there is much more potential in this ai because the ai is flexible and can react like a human can.
So atm the NTA will perhaps beat the AAI, but its more like a supermarioboss who jumps every time at the same position and throws his weapon every time at the same direction without knowing what to do. NTAI has atm the advantage that it has a big weapon and can jump very high
. So for the normal player its a good opponent, but you will find a way to beat this ai with ease and than the ai is broken.I dont know anythin about the other ais...
OTAI does the tag thing too...
Right now, all of the AI's can build, attack, and defend, but not very well. OTAI concentrates on build, NTAI on attack, and AAI is more balanced.
OTAI tends to build something and then decide what to do with it, whereas both NTAI and AAI have buildtrees that tell them what is good to build and not good to build.
Again, I'll dodge the whole "which one is better" because it's really up in the air, what with different philsophies on what an AI should do and be like.
Right now, all of the AI's can build, attack, and defend, but not very well. OTAI concentrates on build, NTAI on attack, and AAI is more balanced.
OTAI tends to build something and then decide what to do with it, whereas both NTAI and AAI have buildtrees that tell them what is good to build and not good to build.
Again, I'll dodge the whole "which one is better" because it's really up in the air, what with different philsophies on what an AI should do and be like.
aai has no buildtrees at all, it keeps track of how efficiently it was able to use certain unit types in combat against other unit types (currently air, land, sea and arty - should be extended in the future) and chooses units accoring to its needs. it should detect automatically which factories need to be built dependend on the mod
the drawback (especially at the beginning) that it may build e.g. a hover craft platfrom or airstrip because it wanted to build a certain unit from their build options although e.g. a vehicle plant would be more useful for the later game
so far otai and aai seem to perform more or less equal with some advantages for one of them dependend on the map and the mod
in general, otai build huge bases (or rather spreads its buildings on the whole map) while aai builds compact bases around then starting position
the drawback (especially at the beginning) that it may build e.g. a hover craft platfrom or airstrip because it wanted to build a certain unit from their build options although e.g. a vehicle plant would be more useful for the later game
so far otai and aai seem to perform more or less equal with some advantages for one of them dependend on the map and the mod
in general, otai build huge bases (or rather spreads its buildings on the whole map) while aai builds compact bases around then starting position
The problem is really: "what do you want from the ai?"
If you want real challange in a "jeffy/peewee rush ho!" manner, a buildtree ai might be what you want. (as there is not that much possibilities to get to the 5 peewees after 60 second point...)
I, otoh, like to see the AI grow their base, learn units, ect. How easy/hard they are to beat is only of a minor importance for me (as ALL current ais are totally rushable, if you really play to win....)
If you want real challange in a "jeffy/peewee rush ho!" manner, a buildtree ai might be what you want. (as there is not that much possibilities to get to the 5 peewees after 60 second point...)
I, otoh, like to see the AI grow their base, learn units, ect. How easy/hard they are to beat is only of a minor importance for me (as ALL current ais are totally rushable, if you really play to win....)
NTAI isnt like that at all, only, pre 0.27 and XE/XE2/XE3/XE4 fall into the hardcoded/nonflexibl variety.
XE5/XE6 learn, and if you figure out that it cant chosoe godo untis to atatck with then it switches after it's gotten the experience necessary, just like AAI, only the 2 AI's use different algorithms and storage,a dn the cotnext and meaning of that data is not the same. That may be different tho since sub hasnt released source for newer versions.
XE7 fixes a lot of miscellaneous problems (FF on 1k/1k (works ok on 10k/10k as far as I know)), including even more tags for modders to change, including meta tags and another freeform tag which should give them AAI/OTAI style rules based control.
If every tag in a buildtree is followed by B_ECONOMY and B_WISHLIST, and the feasable (0 function is fixed then NTAI will skip over factories and other tags and focus on B_ECONOMY untill the feasable() function says it's ok to switch back.
NTAI 0.27.27b1.27b1/.28/.28.1, .2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,10+ /testbuild 1,2,3,4,5 all had more flexible buildtrees that took into account resources and map data such as low metal etc.
And no NTAI doesnt focus on atatck either, it just happens to ahve mroe work done on it than the other AI's in terms of unit micromanagement (d-gunning, builders reclaiming enemies if attacked, auto attack nearby units, seek & destroy (add to both scouters and attackers and it'll scout but stop and attack))
XE5/XE6 learn, and if you figure out that it cant chosoe godo untis to atatck with then it switches after it's gotten the experience necessary, just like AAI, only the 2 AI's use different algorithms and storage,a dn the cotnext and meaning of that data is not the same. That may be different tho since sub hasnt released source for newer versions.
XE7 fixes a lot of miscellaneous problems (FF on 1k/1k (works ok on 10k/10k as far as I know)), including even more tags for modders to change, including meta tags and another freeform tag which should give them AAI/OTAI style rules based control.
If every tag in a buildtree is followed by B_ECONOMY and B_WISHLIST, and the feasable (0 function is fixed then NTAI will skip over factories and other tags and focus on B_ECONOMY untill the feasable() function says it's ok to switch back.
NTAI 0.27.27b1.27b1/.28/.28.1, .2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,10+ /testbuild 1,2,3,4,5 all had more flexible buildtrees that took into account resources and map data such as low metal etc.
And no NTAI doesnt focus on atatck either, it just happens to ahve mroe work done on it than the other AI's in terms of unit micromanagement (d-gunning, builders reclaiming enemies if attacked, auto attack nearby units, seek & destroy (add to both scouters and attackers and it'll scout but stop and attack))
have you ever been to the valley of roflmfao? A lot has changed since NTAI 0.2 and the 30 or more versions released since then. I dont like releasing a new version solely to fix bugs, I always add or tweak something then get carried away adding little things.I cannot say anything about NTAI because i didnt touch is since 15 versions ago.