The end of the maintenance branch - Page 3

The end of the maintenance branch

Discuss the source code and development of Spring Engine in general from a technical point of view. Patches go here too.

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ivand
Posts: 155
Joined: 27 Jun 2007, 17:05

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by ivand »

Thanks for everyone supported, but the head wind is too strong.
I now realize I don't want to spend my time on that.
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ThinkSome
Posts: 340
Joined: 14 Jun 2015, 13:36

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by ThinkSome »

ivand wrote:
21 Jun 2020, 12:54
Thanks for everyone supported, but the head wind is too strong.
I now realize I don't want to spend my time on that.
What head wind? It's just the usual naggers nagging. Release! Release!

I want to get more fps in Spring:1944 again (currently at 22 fps in a 500 unit game on 104+1510).


Raaar's issues can be fixed as we go (in develop). Noone working on pathing/sim cannot be a reason to stop graphics development.
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Ares
Balanced Annihilation Developer
Posts: 359
Joined: 19 Mar 2011, 13:43

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by Ares »

Beherith wrote:
21 Jun 2020, 11:49
This is BA on develop with 7.5k (1000 fighters patrolling too) units in iconwars (zoomed out), running at 60+ fps.
My rig is i7-2700k + GTX2060.
For comparison here is BA running on old engine with 7.5k units and 10k fighters patrolling with lua enabled and full backwards compatibility on an older machine. My rig is i7-4790k + GTX780.

Image
ivand wrote:
21 Jun 2020, 12:54
I now realize I don't want to spend my time on that.

I wish you luck in your future projects. PS Why did Abma ban me from official host?
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 6187
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by FLOZi »

i7-2700k is from October 2011, i7-4790k is from June 2014.

GTX 780 is form May 2013, RTX 2060 is pretty much brand new.

A fairer comparison would be for Behe to run the same test on both engine versions.


Both show that Spring is pretty amazeballs.
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abma
Spring Developer
Posts: 3600
Joined: 01 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by abma »

ivand wrote:
21 Jun 2020, 12:54
Thanks for everyone supported, but the head wind is too strong.
I now realize I don't want to spend my time on that.
That's a tragedy. Someone sadly stepped onto the shitstorm mine. The trolls who awoke had nothing to do with this, they are just the usual BA-drama-trolls: moderating them just takes some time. The plan sound good, so maybe someone else can step into this.

I'm pretty sure you would find a several people who would like to help you. Still, i sadly can understand your decision.
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Beherith
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Joined: 26 Oct 2007, 16:21

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by Beherith »

Ares, could you try with 1k fighters out of 7.5k units while the units are visibly rendered? Iconwars dont test engines rendering performance.
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Google_Frog
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Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by Google_Frog »

Ares wrote:
21 Jun 2020, 14:21
For comparison here is BA running on old engine with 7.5k units and 10k fighters patrolling with lua enabled and full backwards compatibility on an older machine. My rig is i7-4790k + GTX780.
Ares your claims will be believable when you supply the game and engine version required to reproduce them, both with links to their source. Until then you may be leaving out caveats (such as possibly only working in icon mode) or completely making things up. We can't know. Posting "old is better" is not useful unless you provide a way to see that the old engine is better.
abma wrote:
21 Jun 2020, 23:31
That's a tragedy. Someone sadly stepped onto the shitstorm mine. The trolls who awoke had nothing to do with this, they are just the usual BA-drama-trolls: moderating them just takes some time. The plan sound good, so maybe someone else can step into this.

I'm pretty sure you would find a several people who would like to help you. Still, i sadly can understand your decision.
Are any of those "several people" not already talking to ivand on Discord? The participants of this thread breaks down as follows:
  • People associated with BAR. These people are already reachable through other channels so nothing is learnt from them.
  • Other game developers (eg ThinkSome, zwszg, FLOZi and raaar) that brought up their other demands on the engine.
  • The "BA trolls", which see the recent engine going in completely the wrong direction
  • One engine developer, abma.
I think this thread was an attempt to find the people that would like to help with this, and the conclusion was that there were too few such people to be found here.
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gajop
Moderator
Posts: 3031
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 20:42

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by gajop »

I offered to help and gave some comments on the draft version of the PR. I'm confused why this was already abandoned and what the engine fork will achieve.
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10322
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by PicassoCT »

Do it.. i will bitch horribly later no matter what, but that is just me having to dig through the horrible legacy code of two "games" :D
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hokomoko
Spring Developer
Posts: 592
Joined: 02 Jun 2014, 00:46

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by hokomoko »

As I'm not active enough to make an informed decision, I defer to ivand (and others in this thread) in this matter as I trust his (and their) judgement.
I'll do my best to help getting what's necessary in the release.
I'll elaborate more on how we're going to do it later, stay tuned.
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AF
AI Developer
Posts: 20678
Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by AF »

I suspect Ares is running the gpl violation engine Zerver worked on. He's not even using the spring engine. I've heard a number of people are still using it and that it's actively sought after purely for FPS

edit: nice text substitution
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azaremoth
Cursed Developer
Posts: 543
Joined: 17 Feb 2005, 22:05

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by azaremoth »

ivand wrote:
21 Jun 2020, 12:54
Thanks for everyone supported, but the head wind is too strong.
I now realize I don't want to spend my time on that.
Don't let the usual BA-related crying disencourage you.

I do fully support your strategy!
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ThinkSome
Posts: 340
Joined: 14 Jun 2015, 13:36

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by ThinkSome »

azaremoth wrote:
22 Jun 2020, 13:24
Hey Azaremoth, when will The Cursed be 104.0+1510 ready?
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by PicassoCT »

If backwards compatability goes broke, is there something else that needs breaking?
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azaremoth
Cursed Developer
Posts: 543
Joined: 17 Feb 2005, 22:05

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by azaremoth »

ThinkSome wrote: Hey Azaremoth, when will The Cursed be 104.0+1510 ready?
Version 1.446 should work with it - the version was in the drawer some time... Give it a try.
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 6187
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by FLOZi »

AF wrote:
22 Jun 2020, 11:40
I suspect Ares is running the gpl violation engine Zerver worked on. He's not even using the spring engine. I've heard a number of people are still using it and that it's actively sought after purely for FPS

edit: nice text substitution
I don't see the difference between Beheriths screenshot and Ares', except that he didn't post the 'i' screen. Is that the entire basis of your supposition or am I missing something else? Otherwise this is ad-hominem.

edit: On closer inspection Beheriths first image (only) is without icons, which explains his request of Ares in his followup post. I'd still like to see a as-like comparison on the same hardware (FWIW I fully believe it will be clearly in favour of the newer development), rather than cross-comparison on different CPU/GPU setups and differences in how the test is conducted. If others are also interested in trying to heal rifts from all the dramallama, surely this is good starting point to demonstrate that new development is nothing to fear.


Anyway, looks like some variation of this plan is going ahead afterall, so good news.
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ThinkSome
Posts: 340
Joined: 14 Jun 2015, 13:36

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by ThinkSome »

I would be really, really happy if the OpenGL requirements were lowered to 4.2 (ivy bridge iGPU).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_I ... sing_units

PS: why is the OpenGL version at 4.0 for Windows, 4.1 for MacOS and 4.2 for Linux on the same iGPU?


I would be happy if Spring:1944 could also make the transition soon as we are (in general) in need of some overhaul in the UI department. AFAIK I am the only one that does not have a GL 4.3-compatible potato.
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abma
Spring Developer
Posts: 3600
Joined: 01 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by abma »

ThinkSome wrote:
27 Jun 2020, 23:42
PS: why is the OpenGL version at 4.0 for Windows, 4.1 for MacOS and 4.2 for Linux on the same iGPU?
drivers: the opengl supported version depends on hardware + drivers.
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Super Mario
Posts: 815
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 02:54

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by Super Mario »

Make sure that you switch to c++ 20 when modules are officially supported for the big 3 compilers. Other than that full speed ahead on the develop branch.
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10322
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by PicassoCT »

Forking ta away from email chess was blasphemy. Only God shall view the world from up high. Repent you blasphe.ers a d heretics.
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