zero-K on spring server

zero-K on spring server

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8611z
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Joined: 08 Jul 2015, 20:20

zero-K on spring server

Post by 8611z » 28 Sep 2015, 13:58

It could be nice to have an autohost on spring lobby server that runs zero-K.
I like to play zK and other spring mods too, but the requirement of seperate lobbies puts me off.
When you want to play something else beside the big-teams matches it often requires some waiting to find players: Running two lobbies just to idle is bit too much hassle.
Surely I can not be only one?
There is probally also players who just want to check out the state of zK via some matches but hesitate to do the step of installing something new.
So I think such host would see some usage.

Maybe someone can run such host?
The website-integration (customized Commanders, ranks,...) of zero-K is not important imo.
There is option to play via relayhosts but I found them not so reliable. A real autohost is also more likely to get attention and acceptance of players.

Suggested settings:
I guess it would mainly be aimed at "small teamers", because matches with big teams can always be found on normal zK server.
Maybe max 6 players is good?
Same zK+engine version as the official hosts, max 6 players, map pool similiar like on ACE Small teams host.
I would prefer no "lolmaps", so if players join all involved know they are looking for (somewhat) serious game, and nobody is disappointed because others do not want to play Duck/Trololo/Speedmetal. But really any kind of host would be welcome.
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Silentwings
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by Silentwings » 28 Sep 2015, 14:06

One of the BA hosters offered this when ZK left (the host would have to be SPADS ofc). I don't know if the offer was ever made visible enough, it may have fallen through the cracks at the time but I guess its still open if ZK want it.
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Jools
XTA Developer
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by Jools » 28 Sep 2015, 14:11

I can set up a ZK host on spring server if there is need for it (= at least one more guy says he wants it), that's not difficult at all.

I thought that most zk people want to have their own site-specific things such as their own replay upload, ranks etc. I think it would be beneficial anyway to create a bridge between these systems, but it could be some work to do so...
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8611z
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Joined: 08 Jul 2015, 20:20

Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by 8611z » 28 Sep 2015, 14:18

Yes, there is awards, elo etc similiar to it is also on replays.springrts.com
Replays can just upload to that site, like other hosts?
You can customize Commanders on the zK website (or in lobby, which basically displays the website) but it is not a criticial: There is default commanders to choose from.
There is other small features like donators have an ingame-icon thing, but it is all minor and not critical for playing.
A "bridge" could be nice but I think for some just-for-fun matches it is not so important.

Jools: give it a try?
Game version: Zero-K v1.3.9.0
Engine version: 100.0
And room-name something with "lobster", I think that is zK's spirit animal.
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gajop
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by gajop » 28 Sep 2015, 15:11

I would like to have ZK on this server, because the lobby I'm developing uses the existing protocol.
However I don't want to split its community, cause additional confusion, or decrease its quality due to little support that would be available here and lack of some of its core functionality.
So generally I would be against it, but you're free to try and pursue it.
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8611z
Posts: 169
Joined: 08 Jul 2015, 20:20

Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by 8611z » 28 Sep 2015, 15:19

Ok, host name:
"((official hosts are at ONLY zero-k.info)) Lobster Sauna"
and welcome message:
This is an unofficial host. For the best zero-k experience visit their official hosts at zero-k.info
Until then, enjoy your stay at Lobster Sauna.


https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K-Inf ... issues/814
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gajop
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by gajop » 29 Sep 2015, 13:50

Seems good. Any way to make {info,chat}logs, replays and similar easily available to the ZK devs in case of issues?
Are games automatically uploaded to a replay site?
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BlitzTank
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by BlitzTank » 04 Oct 2015, 08:00

lol how would you ever find enough ZK players to have a real game?

all ZK players are on ZK server
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Silentwings
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by Silentwings » 04 Oct 2015, 09:01

I doubt anyone expects it to see much use, or anything matching whay you think are "real" games. It's also useful to showcase Spring projects and have an easy way to check ZK stays compatible.
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raaar
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by raaar » 04 Oct 2015, 17:22

Personally one of the main attractions of ZK is the custom commander system.

Unfortunately it's not really competitive and it gets to the point where people focusing resources on it are kind of accused of trolling (design facepalm).
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Orfelius
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Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 20:57

Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by Orfelius » 08 Oct 2015, 19:08

No Commander customization is pretty much the only thing that makes hosting 0K on Uberserver not viable.
lol how would you ever find enough ZK players to have a real game?
lol how would you ever find enough Metal Faction/EvoRTS/JauriaRTS players to have a real game?

^example why your argument is kinda botched.

At one point there was an incentive to make adaptive commanders inside a game. Basically visible mutually excluding modules for arms, torso, back, legs and both arms. So for example you could have 2 weapons but lose the build power or get jetpack while lose the metal/energy income. The model was (kinda) made by Anarchid and concept was semi estabilished but vile Frog decided that the efforts are better to be focused on Steam release. In result ZK did not push closer into Steam release almost at all and we sadly do not have in-game custom upgrades.

Some alternative to ZK server would be nice.
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Jools
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by Jools » 11 Oct 2015, 16:27

Since there were now two requests, I put up a zk autohost:

[cranberry]
description:Cranberry
battleName:Lobster with cranberries
modName:~Zero-K\ v.+
maxPlayers:21
minRank:0

It runs on spring 100.0, I hope that's ok. It autojoins and posts some info in #zk, and it can be controlled from #[cranberry]Autohost, or from battle of course.

It's a spads autohost and it has the same plugins as the xta ones, for instance some useful commands are:
!dlmap - downloads current map (autohosts can host maps they don't have, but in that case you cannot use "choose in game" with mapboxes)
!dlmap Aliendesert - downloads map named Aliendesert from rapid
!nbteams 2 - sets 2 teams to be balanced according to
!balance - balances the game

Edit: I also put there the ZeroK and SpringieExtension plugins, so some familiar commands should work...
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gajop
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by gajop » 11 Oct 2015, 16:43

How does ZK obtain custom commanders?
I wonder how difficult it would be to implement this without relying on the ZK server
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abma
Spring Developer
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by abma » 11 Oct 2015, 16:52

gajop wrote:I wonder how difficult it would be to implement this without relying on the ZK server
afaik bibim already had it partly implemented, but not sure.

https://springrts.com/wiki/SPADS_offici ... list#ZeroK
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Jools
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by Jools » 11 Oct 2015, 17:33

gajop wrote:How does ZK obtain custom commanders?
I wonder how difficult it would be to implement this without relying on the ZK server
I don't know how springie does it, but spads can be integrated with lua, for example you can add a custom tag in the start script which can then be read by lua.

But why would you do something that essentially copies what already exists? Not to mention the work of keeping two systems that do the same thing up to date. Imho a waste of resources.
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abma
Spring Developer
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by abma » 11 Oct 2015, 18:17

Jools wrote:But why would you do something that essentially copies what already exists? Not to mention the work of keeping two systems that do the same thing up to date. Imho a waste of resources.
fully agreed, the problem here is that zerok infrastructure wasn't made to support other games and also badly supports linux.
I like to play zK and other spring mods too, but the requirement of seperate lobbies puts me off.
thats the reason for this thread / request...
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gajop
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by gajop » 11 Oct 2015, 18:57

Jools wrote:But why would you do something that essentially copies what already exists? Not to mention the work of keeping two systems that do the same thing up to date. Imho a waste of resources.
Hey, it's not me that wanted to host ZK here, but I think it's reasonable to try to do it as good as possible.
Who knows, if all you need to do is get a few files/query a few simple APIs, it might be worth doing.
PS: I won't be doing it :roll: At least not right now 8)
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Silentwings
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by Silentwings » 11 Oct 2015, 19:02

I guess there is no way to use the bits that need connction to ZK infra without writing more code, and tbh if anyone is going to write it it should be ZK devs. But there should plenty left still useable.
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bibim
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by bibim » 12 Oct 2015, 14:45

As said here, I already implemented most Zero-K specific functionalities in SPADS Zero-K plugin (integration in Zero-K replay site, Zero-K clan management, Elo ranking/balancing, custom commanders, recommended maps, Zero-K awards...).

But this is no longer functional for 2 reasons:
- Zero-K infrastructure and especially the WebServices interface has changed
- Zero-K accounts are no longer based on official lobby accounts since Zero-K uses its own lobby server, so SPADS has no way to identify a Zero-K player from his lobby ID anymore
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Jools
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Re: zero-K on spring server

Post by Jools » 12 Oct 2015, 15:34

bibim wrote: But this is no longer functional for 2 reasons:
- Zero-K infrastructure and especially the WebServices interface has changed
- Zero-K accounts are no longer based on official lobby accounts since Zero-K uses its own lobby server, so SPADS has no way to identify a Zero-K player from his lobby ID anymore
Wow, that's a lot of work already done.

I looked at the conf files for both plugins, and there is a lot you can do:
https://github.com/Yaribz/SPADS/blob/ma ... nsion.conf
https://github.com/Yaribz/SPADS/blob/ma ... ZeroK.conf

There is a setting called springieServiceProxy: so this interface needs to be updated with new code? And a way to lookup if a certain spring lobby account has an zero-k equivalent with custom commanders? Would it be possible/difficult to lookup the corresponding accounts if they have the same name on both places?I think that requirement wouldn't be so bad. Or maybe there is a problem with sending these credentials in plain text too.

All this provided of course that zero-k wants this: https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K-Inf ... issues/814
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