Radars seem not to see the units below its position

[otyugh]

Hey there,
Today we played a few games with friends and were very disapointed by seeing there was "a bug", I'm not sure if it's one or not, so I'm here to ask for confirmation.

When someone is defending a hill, he can't see by radar the units coming and striking from below. When doing roquet fights it was very obvious that the one on the top of the hill wouldn't do it (because the units down there were invisible to radars), while the one assaulting from below has an easy time (radars works perfectly detecting the units ontop of the montain).

Bug or gameplay mecanic ? This was seen on the map "Talus"

[Silentwings]

Radars can't see through the ground, no matter how small or shallow the piece of ground in the way might be. In most games you can check where you can/can't see with los/radar by pressing "l" or typing "/togglelos" into the chat console.

Without you telling us which game you are playing, no one can tell you what is intended and what is not.

[otyugh]

Balanced annihilation, last engine, last version.

"r" is the radar, all the scene is within his range.
"e" is an ennemy unit.

Code: Select all

            ___________r_____
        ___/
__e____/

"r" does not see "x" in such a case.

Code: Select all

            ___________e_____
        ___/
__r____/

"r" does see "x" in such a case.



I may just do a screenshot.
Bug or functionnality ?

[Forboding Angel]

Radar point is likely far above the unit, which explains this scenario.

[gajop]

"r" does not see "x" in such a case.

That's something "r" and I have in common

[otyugh]

Radar point is likely far above the unit, which explains this scenario.

So in that mind, the contrary shouldn't be true too, right ?

-> When the radar point is far below the unit.
Well in that exact contrary case, radar works. That's why it seem unfair, and therefore, a bugg to fix.


Also let's add one detail :

Code: Select all

                        ___________r_____
___e2__             ___/
        \ __e1____/

e1 is not detected by r, while e2 is.

Still a normal behaviour ?

[Silentwings]

Yes, as said, the radar cannot see through ground, so e2 is much more easily seen than e1. The radar is emitted from approximately the position of the radar dish - at the top of the radar tower. So you should not build radars at the points indicated on your diagrams, since will they not pick up make walking up slopes towards the top of their hills. Afaik this is not a bad approximation to "real" radar behaviour. See attached images - the radar boundary is blue/green.

Allowing for diagrams not being perfectly drawn, only your second diagram in the first post would suggest a bug to me, and I can't reproduce it - I think that won't happen unless your unit on top of the hill is pretty tall or the slope is small/shallow.

Afaics you and Forb are talking at cross purposes with "when the radar point is far below the unit" (and Forbs comment is wrong anyway).

[Forboding Angel]

(and Forbs comment is wrong anyway).

If the point were far above the radar unit it changes the angle, therefore when looking in L view, it would even moreso look like the unit SHOULD be seen, but the lip of cliff terrain blocks it.

[otyugh]

Allowing for diagrams not being perfectly drawn, only your second diagram in the first post would suggest a bug to me, and I can't reproduce it - I think that won't happen unless your unit on top of the hill is pretty tall or the slope is small/shallow.

One of the two have to, to me.
9"16 on this game (black-red), we were able to reproduce : two radar one ontop of a hill, the other below : one seeing the other but not reciprocally.

http://replays.springrts.com/replay/ec0 ... b6d56658e/

[wahoo]

It's not just radar, the entire LOS mechanism is broken now.
I can't tell if it's since the last engine update or one of the latest BA versions, but it's definitely not right.

Code: Select all

                                 Really small bump                             
                               Hardly even noticable                           
    Team 1         __//        without tilting camera                          
    radar   -->   (__(O)               |                   ____       Team 2   
                   ||\\                |                -<|====]  <--  LLT     
                   ||                  |                    ||                 
                   ||                 \|/                   ||                 
                   ||                  V                    ||                 
 _________________/__\_________________                     ||                 
             :                         \___________________/__\________________
             :                                              :                  
             :<- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -: This is LLT's    
             :                                              : firing range     

In the picture: LLT and radar can't see each other.

This is huge WTF situation, because radar's visiblity range is normally quite long, a bit longer than HLT shooting range.
It seems like the small bump obsured LOS, as if LOS was determined by projecting rays from point at observer's ground level to point at target's ground level.

Only on 100% flat map regions LOS and radar are working as they are supposed to be.
For example, DSD *ramp* is bumpy enough to prevent Fido from outranging Janus.

[raaar]

Maybe it was like that before and people are just more aware now because of the visual los changes.

I think there's a losMipLevel game setting for los resolution. Maybe it also affects radar. Values are 0 (max resolution, slower) to 6 (lower resolution, faster). Lower resolution probably makes it more easlily clipped by terrain.

Ba 9.05 was using 2 for losMipLevel and 4 for airMipLevel. XTA uses the same values. I'm using 3 / 3 on my game...Maybe I need to change.

Another possible fix would probably be to raise the radarEmitHeight for all radars.

[Forboding Angel]

Code: Select all

                                 Really small bump                             
                               Hardly even noticable                           
    Team 1         __//        without tilting camera                          
    radar   -->   (__(O)               |                   ____       Team 2   
                   ||\\                |                -<|====]  <--  LLT     
                   ||                  |                    ||                 
                   ||                 \|/                   ||                 
                   ||                  V                    ||                 
 _________________/__\_________________                     ||                 
             :                         \___________________/__\________________
             :                                              :                  
             :<- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -: This is LLT's    
             :                                              : firing range     

ASCII art level: Master.