Friendly Fire

[Molloy]

I'm quite a fan of OTA and Spring (so please don't tell me - "FFS! Go play OTA if you want to play OTA u noob!!") :)

Is there any chance we could add a feature to the engine that stops your own weapons colliding with your own units? It would give the OTA mod, and any other mods who wanted to have masses of lv1 units, a real boost.

[Torrasque]

I think that there is no developper who want to do/have that, and a lot of people prefere the way Spring handle that.

So the better for you is to make it yourself, or wait that someone is interseted to make it...but I don't think it's gonna happen.

[PauloMorfeo]

... (so please don't tell me - "FFS! Go play OTA if you want to play OTA u noob!!") :)
...

I won't be that harsh, by no means. The thing is, an option for such could be implemented but, there are so many things that the game needs and that are so much more important, that that won't be done in the foreseeable future.

[Molloy]

I can understand that having things the way they are now is perhaps better for Spring.

It's just that there are a few aspects holding back the OTA mod from being pretty damn close to the proper TA gameplay. At the moment you can't build missile forests because the units hit each other, and consequently the Flashes are too powerful.

[IMSabbel]

Well, having read a similar post in an ota forum , i beg to wonder...
WHY do people want hawk hopping, line bombing, or MT forrests in spring?

The only reason why people really want to use those crappy exploits is IMHO that they are so used to them that they feel weak and unsecure if they have to use proper tactics.

[Molloy]

Because without Line Bombing people can build loads of berthas and win every time. Without missile forest people can build loads of flashes and win every time. They're necessary techiques for restoring balance to the game. Without the exploits there are no "proper tactics". Without the bugs there are less tactical options.

Saying people who use those tactics are "weak and insecure" is frankly hilarious. The most talented and gifted players in TA (and other games like Uberhack, XTA and DRUH) used all the unit control tricks at their disposal. The Sweedish Yankspankers like SY_SJ used to use the line bombing techniques and missle forest techniques... what weak and insecure people they turned out to be.

[NOiZE]

lol

[wizard8873]

Because without Line Bombing people can build loads of berthas and win every time. Without missile forest people can build loads of flashes and win every time. They're necessary techiques for restoring balance to the game. Without the exploits there are no "proper tactics". Without the bugs there are less tactical options.

Saying people who use those tactics are "weak and insecure" is frankly hilarious. The most talented and gifted players in TA (and other games like Uberhack, XTA and DRUH) used all the unit control tricks at their disposal. The Sweedish Yankspankers like SY_SJ used to use the line bombing techniques and missle forest techniques... what weak and insecure people they turned out to be.

there are other tactics to win. if a person does a flash or peewee rush, you have LLT's, HLT's, i forget their name but there are anti-swarm laser turrets. DT's and even other units stop them. the game changed but tactics and balancng are still there. I have not seen a person with bertha lines win a game yet. berthas alone do not win the game and neither do zippers/flashes/peewees or similar units. the game is still very well balanced imo.

[krogothe]

I have not seen a person with bertha lines win a game yet. berthas alone do not win the game and neither do zippers/flashes/peewees or similar units. the game is still very well balanced imo.

Youve never played AA...


While i dont think it would be terribly hard for the devs to implement it, i doubt they have the time/motivation to do so. Your best chance is learning c++ and doing what you want like i did.

[Chocapic]

Because without Line Bombing people can build loads of berthas and win every time. Without missile forest people can build loads of flashes and win every time. They're necessary techiques for restoring balance to the game. Without the exploits there are no "proper tactics". Without the bugs there are less tactical options.

Saying people who use those tactics are "weak and insecure" is frankly hilarious. The most talented and gifted players in TA (and other games like Uberhack, XTA and DRUH) used all the unit control tricks at their disposal. The Sweedish Yankspankers like SY_SJ used to use the line bombing techniques and missle forest techniques... what weak and insecure people they turned out to be.

fight fire with fire, defend flash rushes with ur own rushes and a couple of mt's.
for instance u can set samsons on a line formation making them a good early defensive weapon (depends a lot on the mod balance too).
in spring the gameplay changed a bit , but its pretty good and fun.
get used to it and you'll like it
(Note: after all the friendly fire was a improvement on OTA in what concerns reality)

[Molloy]

Because without Line Bombing people can build loads of berthas and win every time. Without missile forest people can build loads of flashes and win every time. They're necessary techiques for restoring balance to the game. Without the exploits there are no "proper tactics". Without the bugs there are less tactical options.

Saying people who use those tactics are "weak and insecure" is frankly hilarious. The most talented and gifted players in TA (and other games like Uberhack, XTA and DRUH) used all the unit control tricks at their disposal. The Sweedish Yankspankers like SY_SJ used to use the line bombing techniques and missle forest techniques... what weak and insecure people they turned out to be.

there are other tactics to win. if a person does a flash or peewee rush, you have LLT's, HLT's, i forget their name but there are anti-swarm laser turrets. DT's and even other units stop them. the game changed but tactics and balancng are still there. I have not seen a person with bertha lines win a game yet. berthas alone do not win the game and neither do zippers/flashes/peewees or similar units. the game is still very well balanced imo.

LLT's are absolutely rubbish in OTA. HLT's aren't bad, but they're too expensive. They're only worth the metal in rare circumstances. Immolators are sort of OK in some circumstances. But they're a specialised unit.

MT's are the only cost effective defence in OTA. It's already a very offence heavy game (that's why most newbies get pissed off with the play balance) but with the friendly fire it might as well be a 100% offensive mod.

[NOiZE]

forget OTA

Play Spring...

[FizWizz]

I would say to forget OTA and move on, myself... but the difference between what you want and what I want and Molloy wants are really just a matter of preference. I'm not likely to go back to OTA, but some people like OTA's balance. It is probably arguable that there is nothing intrinsically superior about OTA balance/tactics or AA balance/tactics or XTA balance/tactics.

I personally detest OTA's balance, and I don't like friendly units being able to fire through each other, and most Springer's probably feel the same, but why bash Molloy for wanting to keep that experience while playing in Spring? Bringing back some of the quirks of OTA will require changes to the engine, but so long as it doesn't get in the way of anything else, I really don't see why it should be a problem.

That said, it sure better not get in the way of anything else, or they will be hell to be had, supposing someone takes the initiative to code in the options for OTA-style physics.

[Masse]

but if we tell him that OTA sucks enought he/she might stop trying to get spring to be like OTA

[wizard8873]

Because without Line Bombing people can build loads of berthas and win every time. Without missile forest people can build loads of flashes and win every time. They're necessary techiques for restoring balance to the game. Without the exploits there are no "proper tactics". Without the bugs there are less tactical options.

Saying people who use those tactics are "weak and insecure" is frankly hilarious. The most talented and gifted players in TA (and other games like Uberhack, XTA and DRUH) used all the unit control tricks at their disposal. The Sweedish Yankspankers like SY_SJ used to use the line bombing techniques and missle forest techniques... what weak and insecure people they turned out to be.

there are other tactics to win. if a person does a flash or peewee rush, you have LLT's, HLT's, i forget their name but there are anti-swarm laser turrets. DT's and even other units stop them. the game changed but tactics and balancng are still there. I have not seen a person with bertha lines win a game yet. berthas alone do not win the game and neither do zippers/flashes/peewees or similar units. the game is still very well balanced imo.

LLT's are absolutely rubbish in OTA. HLT's aren't bad, but they're too expensive. They're only worth the metal in rare circumstances. Immolators are sort of OK in some circumstances. But they're a specialised unit.

MT's are the only cost effective defence in OTA. It's already a very offence heavy game (that's why most newbies get pissed off with the play balance) but with the friendly fire it might as well be a 100% offensive mod.

honestly, forget OTA. its was fun and i still play it but play a few games of AA. i didnt like it at first either but you get used to it and come to love it. at worst, you can play the B mod which is only OTA units i believe.

LLT's might be rubbish but how do you use them? if you just set them out there all alone, of course theyll be a waste. build some DT in front and have them support the units that are ahead of it. You just have to pick up tactics.

Spring came with XTA and, while i couldnt stand the balancing on that, i came to like it until i started playing AA. It takes time to get used to a mod. friendly fire sucks but it adds to the game. use it to your advantage. if you have a group of bulldogs coming at you, for example, run your units right into and through the group. theyll be forced to fire no matter what and theyll hit their own guys.

back to the berthas, even in OTA, i have never seen a line dominate a game. you take a radar jammer vehicle, a mobile radar, and a few snipers and make your way through the frontlines of your enemy and to the berthas. if the enemy is on an offensive, itll leave their base more vulnerable once you penetrate it. also, berthas really on energy. find their fusion reactors and take those out. itll be a while before they get enough back up to support their production and berthas. like i said, learn some other tactics. theres more than one way to win/lose in OTA and Spring, regardless of mod.

[SeanHeron]

Wizard and Masse, your posts aren´t very constructive. I myself am a great fan of the XTA balance (XTA rules !!!), however I think there are quite a few OTA players that won´t start playing Spring, because it has quite a few drastic changes.
Nobody is saying that we want to make Spring into TA II , but what reason is there against making a "purist" OTA mod , which changes as little as possible from the original? I´d enjoy that now and then, just because of my good memories of OTA.
Of course I agree with krogothe that the best thing is too learn C++ and do it yourself, after all thats what open source is about :D .

[SwiftSpear]

I have not seen a person with bertha lines win a game yet. berthas alone do not win the game and neither do zippers/flashes/peewees or similar units. the game is still very well balanced imo.

Youve never played AA...


While i dont think it would be terribly hard for the devs to implement it, i doubt they have the time/motivation to do so. Your best chance is learning c++ and doing what you want like i did.

You can block plasma projectiles in AA...

If you win/lose soully by berthas in AA then the other player is TERRIBLE.

[Warlord Zsinj]

Has anyone else noticed that a lot of people here at Spring (dare I say, a lot of AA players - not all mind you - ) are acting like whiney little brats?

Good god, the rudeness of some of the people here. It really is disgusting.

In every one of Molloy's threads; of which none have been rude, overpresumptuous or attempting to butt in on someone else's fun, there have been people who have been offensively rude to him.

You people should watch your mouths, think about what you are really doing for Spring by being so rude and unwelcoming. Not everyone likes AA; AA is not the perfect mod. You enjoy it - good for you. Don't ruin someone else's fun - and definitely don't think you are so high and mighty as to be able to treat someone else like this, or "chase them away", because Spring is the exclusive right of AA and XTA.

[wizard8873]

Wizard and Masse, your posts aren´t very constructive. I myself am a great fan of the XTA balance (XTA rules !!!), however I think there are quite a few OTA players that won´t start playing Spring, because it has quite a few drastic changes.
Nobody is saying that we want to make Spring into TA II , but what reason is there against making a "purist" OTA mod , which changes as little as possible from the original? I´d enjoy that now and then, just because of my good memories of OTA.
Of course I agree with krogothe that the best thing is too learn C++ and do it yourself, after all thats what open source is about :D .

im not saying dont make a perfect copy of TA in the spring engine, im just saying that you have to get out there and try out new things. TA is great, the best game i've ever played, but it does get old at times. XTA was fun when i got into Spring. i couldnt stand it at first but you learn over time to get used to it and how it plays, same with AA. I just found a lot of the bugs in TA very annoying. to me, they took away from the gameplay. friendly fire, while annoying makes it that much better. you cant just send a whole bunch of units in and try to kill everything. it takes more skill than that.

the thing that got me into Spring was the new engine and playing style. i thought it would come with OTA but i was shocked to see that it didnt. it really doesnt bother me at all now and i have tons of fun playing it.

all im saying is that dont start complaining so quickly about something this good. where else have you seen people create a whole new engine for a game? nowhere. Spring isnt perfect but im more interested in the new map format and new gui thats supposed to come out whenever it does. if you want to change things, def learn how to code. its the only way that youll get what you want.

[IMSabbel]

Has anyone else noticed that a lot of people here at Spring (dare I say, a lot of AA players - not all mind you - ) are acting like whiney little brats?

Good god, the rudeness of some of the people here. It really is disgusting.

In every one of Molloy's threads; of which none have been rude, overpresumptuous or attempting to butt in on someone else's fun, there have been people who have been offensively rude to him.

You people should watch your mouths, think about what you are really doing for Spring by being so rude and unwelcoming. Not everyone likes AA; AA is not the perfect mod. You enjoy it - good for you. Don't ruin someone else's fun - and definitely don't think you are so high and mighty as to be able to treat someone else like this, or "chase them away", because Spring is the exclusive right of AA and XTA.

Maybe because in every one of his threads, he want crap to be put into spring?

This has nothing to do with balance, but filling the game with exploits and bugs.