Wouldn't it be nice to have 10 or so of the most popular maps zipped up into one map pack for the new players? Below I've listed many of the maps that might be candidates for inclusion into such a map pack. The main criteria I used was popularity, for which I have no statistics to back up, but lots of time on the server.
-Altored Divide
-Ashap Plateau
-Ashpen
-Azure Rampart
-Brazilian Battlefield
-Castles
-Comet Catcher Remake
-Core Prime Industrial Area
-Evergreenhaven v03
-Foothills v07
-Greenhaven
-Hamburger Hill
-Hells Pass
-Hills and Valleys v07
-Metal Heck
-Painted Desert Remake
-River Dale et al
-Road to War v2
-Shore to Shore
-Wide Open Combat
-XantheTerra v3
I've highlighted the three that I feel no map pack would be complete without.
So, which maps should be included? Which maps should be excluded? Have I missed any that should be in a map pack? Remember, I want to keep it in the range of 10-12 maps, so it's not a massive download.
Thanks for your input!
TA:S Map Pack
Moderator: Moderators
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Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
Durr, I did highlight four.Das Bruce wrote:You highlighted four...I've highlighted the three that I feel no map pack would be complete without.
Wide open combat, metal heck, cpia all suck.
Riverdale should be included twice just to make sure...
I realize that those three maps suck. However, they're relatively popular, so I felt obligated to include them in the list. Be assured that there's a 99.999% chance that none of them will be in the final pack. Also note that no amount of popularity could force me to put Speed Metal on the list...
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Felix, wile I really appreciate your intentions on this...
The problem is map versions. If the creator decideds to go back and make a new version of the map then the person has to redoiwnlaod that map... However, that still doesn't make it a bad idea imo.
Hmm, another things to worry about is the features. You would need to combine the folders for objects textures etc, unless you put it in a 7z file with all the sd7's in to be extracted into the maps folder then it wouldn't be an issue.
As long as you put them individually in a 7z or zip I see nothing wrong with it.
The problem is map versions. If the creator decideds to go back and make a new version of the map then the person has to redoiwnlaod that map... However, that still doesn't make it a bad idea imo.
Hmm, another things to worry about is the features. You would need to combine the folders for objects textures etc, unless you put it in a 7z file with all the sd7's in to be extracted into the maps folder then it wouldn't be an issue.
As long as you put them individually in a 7z or zip I see nothing wrong with it.
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Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
The player still has to re-download the newer map version, regardless of where he got the map. I'd imagine that the map pack would be kept updated with the latest versions of all the maps.Forboding Angel wrote:Felix, wile I really appreciate your intentions on this...
The problem is map versions. If the creator decideds to go back and make a new version of the map then the person has to redoiwnlaod that map... However, that still doesn't make it a bad idea imo.
Hmm, another things to worry about is the features. You would need to combine the folders for objects textures etc, unless you put it in a 7z file with all the sd7's in to be extracted into the maps folder then it wouldn't be an issue.
As long as you put them individually in a 7z or zip I see nothing wrong with it.
And I'm not quite sure what you're talking about with the features. Explain? Do any of the maps above even have features? Aren't they packed into the map file? I've never had to go stick things into other folders when I've downloaded maps, even if they did have features. Mind explaining the problem to stupid ol' me?
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
This has come up on a number of occasions, and the general conclusion is that it is not a good idea. Largely because many people simply download all the maps at FU, or they will already have several of the maps included in the mappack, and won't want to download them all again.
What I think is a good idea, on the same line, however, is for the Spring lobby to spit out a series of statistics on what the most played maps are, list them from 1 to 10, and then have the download links for them.
It probably wouldn't be too hard to get FU to read this output from the Spring lobby and list them on it's map section, too.
What I think is a good idea, on the same line, however, is for the Spring lobby to spit out a series of statistics on what the most played maps are, list them from 1 to 10, and then have the download links for them.
It probably wouldn't be too hard to get FU to read this output from the Spring lobby and list them on it's map section, too.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
The idea behind a map pack is so when noobs join up and say "what maps/mods should I get?" Just point the straight to the map pack. It's also great for 56k since there's nothing there that they aren't likely to play at some point or another if they stick with the game.Zoombie wrote:I think it should be based soly on quality, because just becasue something is popular dosnt mean its good. Mabey its only populare because the good map's havent been shown off yet. Calling some attention to really really really good maps will makem more popular!
Map packs aren't critiques or art shows.
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Lindir The Green
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 04 May 2005, 15:09
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
-Altored Divide -porc map = crap
-Ashap Plateau - I like it, even though no one ever plays it. It is a good ota map.
-Ashpen - Not total crap, just isn't that much fun to play.
-Azure Rampart - I could write a book on how badly this map is designed.
-Brazilian Battlefield - I hear it's crap, but I never cared to look for myself.
-Castles - Total and complete waste of HDD space
-Comet Catcher Remake - ehh, north has an advantage over the south generally, but for all intents and purposes a good map, but the cretor forgot to change the fog distance, so when you are all zoomed out it's kinda darkish.
-Core Prime Industrial Area - Complete and total crap.
-Evergreenhaven v03 - I made it so I don't think I should be commenting on it.
-Foothills v07 - I made
-Greenhaven - I like greenhaven. However, greenhaven tends to be an aquired taste.
-Hamburger Hill - Utter crap, horrible design.
-Hells Pass - Total crap porc map.
-Hills and Valleys v07 - Could be better as far as asthetics and simple functionality go, but it's fun (I actually thought about fixing all the crappy stuff but I didn't think anyone cared enough), mex radius is ota size, making you actually need to put the mex on the patch (this was before what I believe to be "the radius fix").
-Metal Heck - Ungh, crap, but a great ota classic.
-Painted Desert Remake - I personally hate this map. It has a maximum height of ten (I believe), so it totally screws gameplay from how it was supposed to be).
-River Dale et al - Very unbalanced metal distro, however, it is absolutely beautiful, so I am a bit wishy washy on this one.
-Road to War v2 - Hehehe, I tell deci every day how much crap I think this map is. The road in the center completely screws with pathing. I want my units to go diagonally. Not straight then a 90 degree turn.
-Shore to Shore - Absolutely horrible. No metal in the water and a total porc map. Not to mention it's plain fugly. No metal in the water really really huirts this map. SO does the fact that the height is only 6. 30 x 6 is never a good idea, period.
-Wide Open Combat - Whoever made this should just... go to map making class.
-XantheTerra v3 - Never played it, it comes in a rar file on FU making it immediately crap for me. That is just retarded.
I realize I am being harsh here, but everything I've said is true. You may not like what I have to say, but it is true. I absolutely despise any map that has Ub3r resources in the middle. It's absolutely stupid to make the middle of a map a pivit point. Wheras if you don't control it, you lose. The simple fact is that rush for the middle maps generally tend to be one sided, and are not fun at all. They also promote comm rushing and abusive comm behavior. Encourage expansion to all over the map, not to just the center. Thats just stupid.
It honestly doesn't matter to me whether you put my maps in or not. I attempt to do everything right when making a map, but I don't always succeed. I do however thing that some of my bes are (In no particular order):
Divided shores(v3)
Pathways
Canyon trio
Evergreenhaven
Foothills
County crossing (it has a lot of metal because it's designed for a 3 vs 3 tho, so that would prolly bump it down a bit imo).
The above is simply my opinion and what I think. Everyone thinks differently so no biggie if ppl disagree with me. It's not meant personally. However, it is my belief that if you want to include the best maps that spring has to offer, you are going to have to do a good bit more digging.
oh BTW:
THe most maps played are generally some of the worst. Speed metal is a perfect example. Also, do not inclue any water maps that don't have underwater metal or I will kill someone. No metal in the water on a water map is a crime that should be punishable by death (j/k).
-Ashap Plateau - I like it, even though no one ever plays it. It is a good ota map.
-Ashpen - Not total crap, just isn't that much fun to play.
-Azure Rampart - I could write a book on how badly this map is designed.
-Brazilian Battlefield - I hear it's crap, but I never cared to look for myself.
-Castles - Total and complete waste of HDD space
-Comet Catcher Remake - ehh, north has an advantage over the south generally, but for all intents and purposes a good map, but the cretor forgot to change the fog distance, so when you are all zoomed out it's kinda darkish.
-Core Prime Industrial Area - Complete and total crap.
-Evergreenhaven v03 - I made it so I don't think I should be commenting on it.
-Foothills v07 - I made
-Greenhaven - I like greenhaven. However, greenhaven tends to be an aquired taste.
-Hamburger Hill - Utter crap, horrible design.
-Hells Pass - Total crap porc map.
-Hills and Valleys v07 - Could be better as far as asthetics and simple functionality go, but it's fun (I actually thought about fixing all the crappy stuff but I didn't think anyone cared enough), mex radius is ota size, making you actually need to put the mex on the patch (this was before what I believe to be "the radius fix").
-Metal Heck - Ungh, crap, but a great ota classic.
-Painted Desert Remake - I personally hate this map. It has a maximum height of ten (I believe), so it totally screws gameplay from how it was supposed to be).
-River Dale et al - Very unbalanced metal distro, however, it is absolutely beautiful, so I am a bit wishy washy on this one.
-Road to War v2 - Hehehe, I tell deci every day how much crap I think this map is. The road in the center completely screws with pathing. I want my units to go diagonally. Not straight then a 90 degree turn.
-Shore to Shore - Absolutely horrible. No metal in the water and a total porc map. Not to mention it's plain fugly. No metal in the water really really huirts this map. SO does the fact that the height is only 6. 30 x 6 is never a good idea, period.
-Wide Open Combat - Whoever made this should just... go to map making class.
-XantheTerra v3 - Never played it, it comes in a rar file on FU making it immediately crap for me. That is just retarded.
I realize I am being harsh here, but everything I've said is true. You may not like what I have to say, but it is true. I absolutely despise any map that has Ub3r resources in the middle. It's absolutely stupid to make the middle of a map a pivit point. Wheras if you don't control it, you lose. The simple fact is that rush for the middle maps generally tend to be one sided, and are not fun at all. They also promote comm rushing and abusive comm behavior. Encourage expansion to all over the map, not to just the center. Thats just stupid.
It honestly doesn't matter to me whether you put my maps in or not. I attempt to do everything right when making a map, but I don't always succeed. I do however thing that some of my bes are (In no particular order):
Divided shores(v3)
Pathways
Canyon trio
Evergreenhaven
Foothills
County crossing (it has a lot of metal because it's designed for a 3 vs 3 tho, so that would prolly bump it down a bit imo).
The above is simply my opinion and what I think. Everyone thinks differently so no biggie if ppl disagree with me. It's not meant personally. However, it is my belief that if you want to include the best maps that spring has to offer, you are going to have to do a good bit more digging.
oh BTW:
THe most maps played are generally some of the worst. Speed metal is a perfect example. Also, do not inclue any water maps that don't have underwater metal or I will kill someone. No metal in the water on a water map is a crime that should be punishable by death (j/k).
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
I tend to agree with Forboding Angel, but the fact remains, there's really no point in making a mappack if it isn't for new players who don't want to have to download all the popular maps and hold everyone else up at game start. There's really no point in even HDDing a map if you're only ever going to see it once in game.
Well, someone here has an clear idea about what he likes yes or no.
But as SwiftSpear said: A map pack should contain the most commen played maps, not the maps that the creater likes most.
I actually cheer a map pack, I seem to redownload all the maps one a week, or I start syncing. (every time I try a home made unit, an somehow this always require an complete reinstall to play an normal game)
And Altored divide is imo one of the best maps made yet. Sue me.
But as SwiftSpear said: A map pack should contain the most commen played maps, not the maps that the creater likes most.
I actually cheer a map pack, I seem to redownload all the maps one a week, or I start syncing. (every time I try a home made unit, an somehow this always require an complete reinstall to play an normal game)
And Altored divide is imo one of the best maps made yet. Sue me.