Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
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Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
15 was the age when I didn't care, understand, want to know about IP. That will change.
You will probably look at all of the game engines, find something very well documented, with tutorials and everything. I remember going through the old nehe gamedev opengl tutorials a lot of years ago, they provide some basics, but it's mostly coding - I truly suck at graphics.
Let me put other things into perspective so that you understand how pretty much everything - not only games - work:
You said you needed 1-2 developers, figure out how much the yearly salary for that would be.
Try to figure out how much time they would need to create said game, how much the marketing would cost, add in the same thing for graphics, testing, QA, costs for office space, lawyers, accountants and thus what the monetary value of the finished product would be.
Any sane but very simple math would give you a pretty large number. Now you should start to understand why copyrights and intellectual property exists, ideas don't just manifest themselves into existence, they were brought to market using a long tedious process that costs money. You don't just get to use somebody else's stuff just because you want to really hard. They paid money to make it, they own it by law and that means you need to strike a deal with them to use their ideas, trademarks, whatever - regardless of whether your project is free or not, makes money or not, fails or succeeds.
Next search the news for lawsuits regarding copyright infringements, patent issues and whatnot - there's a ton of them.
I know this is free/open/libre software, but the source code is one thing, what you decide to do with it is another - the actual game content, graphics, models, textures, even text, names, etc. (even if it looks too much like some copyrighted thing).
Now go out and try all the engines, the learning experience will be massive.
You will probably look at all of the game engines, find something very well documented, with tutorials and everything. I remember going through the old nehe gamedev opengl tutorials a lot of years ago, they provide some basics, but it's mostly coding - I truly suck at graphics.
Let me put other things into perspective so that you understand how pretty much everything - not only games - work:
You said you needed 1-2 developers, figure out how much the yearly salary for that would be.
Try to figure out how much time they would need to create said game, how much the marketing would cost, add in the same thing for graphics, testing, QA, costs for office space, lawyers, accountants and thus what the monetary value of the finished product would be.
Any sane but very simple math would give you a pretty large number. Now you should start to understand why copyrights and intellectual property exists, ideas don't just manifest themselves into existence, they were brought to market using a long tedious process that costs money. You don't just get to use somebody else's stuff just because you want to really hard. They paid money to make it, they own it by law and that means you need to strike a deal with them to use their ideas, trademarks, whatever - regardless of whether your project is free or not, makes money or not, fails or succeeds.
Next search the news for lawsuits regarding copyright infringements, patent issues and whatnot - there's a ton of them.
I know this is free/open/libre software, but the source code is one thing, what you decide to do with it is another - the actual game content, graphics, models, textures, even text, names, etc. (even if it looks too much like some copyrighted thing).
Now go out and try all the engines, the learning experience will be massive.
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
another thing that comes with gamedesign-expirience
if you have a scene in your mind, of how cool something will be, and you realize it. You also realize suddenly that someone must play the non-cool side, or that all players for quite some time (e.g. ten seconds) are out of the loop and can do nothing but watch the coolness.
Most ideas one has, are in first person movie mode.
Unfortunatly those only make Cuul of Daty type experiences.
You can make single player games, but even there, cutscenes (which is what one usually just dreams up) of people expressing domination at some other poor beeing get boring pretty fast.
if you have a scene in your mind, of how cool something will be, and you realize it. You also realize suddenly that someone must play the non-cool side, or that all players for quite some time (e.g. ten seconds) are out of the loop and can do nothing but watch the coolness.
Most ideas one has, are in first person movie mode.
Unfortunatly those only make Cuul of Daty type experiences.
You can make single player games, but even there, cutscenes (which is what one usually just dreams up) of people expressing domination at some other poor beeing get boring pretty fast.
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
1. Stop trying to find people to work with you. It's a waste of time and you won't benefit from it at this stage.
2. Write down the design and plan for the game you want to make (preferably something that doesn't infringe on an IP).
3. Start LEARNING everything you need to make that happen. You're both young and you have access to all the knowledge you'd need by just googling a bit.
4. Then start adding content to your game as you learn each thing. Example: Once you learn how to model in 3D, make a couple of simple actors for your game and add them. Add the code they need to interact with the world. Give them textures. Create maps. And so on.. This is not effective at all, but it will get you started and keep you interested.
2. Write down the design and plan for the game you want to make (preferably something that doesn't infringe on an IP).
3. Start LEARNING everything you need to make that happen. You're both young and you have access to all the knowledge you'd need by just googling a bit.
4. Then start adding content to your game as you learn each thing. Example: Once you learn how to model in 3D, make a couple of simple actors for your game and add them. Add the code they need to interact with the world. Give them textures. Create maps. And so on.. This is not effective at all, but it will get you started and keep you interested.
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
Well, the basic question was, "How does a non-programmer go about making a team, whether it's me, or someone else?"
So far all the answers I get here are how to program a game, but not the process of making a team. Not all games were started by programmers of course, and many are made by people working together for something they both want to achieve.
So, let's forget my project, forget the idea, forget the engines, forget the IP, and forget me. How does a non-programmer get a team together and make a game? Currency works in the proprietary world, but how does it work for the world of hobby?
Do people use their status as known people? Do they pitch highly detailed plans? The power of persuasion? Or merely the exchange of skills as I've been answered here?
That's the original point of this thread, but it's blossomed in unpleasant directions (by that, I mean we're discussing too much about my plan which I didn't want to foist on the Spring community)
So far all the answers I get here are how to program a game, but not the process of making a team. Not all games were started by programmers of course, and many are made by people working together for something they both want to achieve.
So, let's forget my project, forget the idea, forget the engines, forget the IP, and forget me. How does a non-programmer get a team together and make a game? Currency works in the proprietary world, but how does it work for the world of hobby?
Do people use their status as known people? Do they pitch highly detailed plans? The power of persuasion? Or merely the exchange of skills as I've been answered here?
That's the original point of this thread, but it's blossomed in unpleasant directions (by that, I mean we're discussing too much about my plan which I didn't want to foist on the Spring community)
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
This is basically what your plan should be.Do people use their status as known people? Do they pitch highly detailed plans? The power of persuasion? Or merely the exchange of skills as I've been answered here?
1) Attain significant status so that people want to help you with doing difficult things that you'll find hard to master.
2) Once you have that much status, pitching a highly detailed (and realistic!) plan will help you actualize that status. You can actualize it by requesting people to join the team, or by pitching it on sites like kickstarter that basically monetize social capital.
3) To achieve this level of social capital you have to invest in the community with which you want to work and prove that you are a serious deal. Help other people with their projects, or release smaller successful projects.
"The power of persuasion" is the only part that doesn't seem to work until you get to communicate with your mark personally. And when you get there, you've practically won already.
4) Once you're there, you still have to lead your team. Discussing leadership is beyond the scope of this howto.
Note that here i'm using the term "status" in the meaning of "social capital" rather than "state of having property X".
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
A few times in grade-school I invited my programmer buddy over to hang out after school and we were so bored playing video games after a few hours that he'd build a Quick Basic engine, I designed some art and gameplay mechanics, and then we built a a simple "asteroids except the point is to mine asteroids not just destroy them" or "it's basically zelda" game. You can get similar results by making friends with the Computer Science Majors... the problem is that "IRL friends getting bored and making a game together" isn't intentional... it's just something that happens when you get a critical mass of like-minded people in the same room so... the only answer I know to "How does a non-programmer go about making a team, whether it's me, or someone else?" is, go to college and spend 4 years learning how to art better and making friends with programmers.
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
I disagree with that. Design and plan may be good for professional, large scale project. But for hobbyist beginners, it's better to start exploring, try things, see where that lead.gajop wrote:2. Write down the design and plan for the game you want to make (preferably something that doesn't infringe on an IP).
That is, instead of looking at Spring/Löve/Unity/.. trying to coerce them into you doing what you want, see what you can get them to do and build tiny games around that.
One does not simply get a team.Raptor177 wrote:Well, the basic question was, "How does a non-programmer go about making a team, whether it's me, or someone else?"
If little boys could raise armies of competent programmers just by willing it, then it would mean you're not living in this reality.
I'd say the most effective way is to build the project yourself, and produce all alone something so utterly amazing people will want to join.
I didn't join Kernel Panic after reading a good pitch, nor out of respect from Boirunner. I joined because after playing a few games I found it such a nice project I couldn't help but love it. Then I offered tiny update, then larger ones, then before I get to understand how I see myself spending nights and nights coding for KP.
So stop looking for a magic recipe to build a team of volunteer working for you. This will never happen. If you are as serious about your dream as you claim, decompose it in small-steps career plan. For example
- Learn to draw
- Learn to texture
- Make new textures for an open source project that you like
- Make more textures, maybe some 3D models too
- Get enough years of practice to produce actually good stuff
- Help some other project or build your own tiny project
- Practice again some more, grow skill
...
- Forget initial dream and make something better instead
Also, did you miss SinbadEV earlier point about there being only two kinds of people?
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
I disagree with that.zwzsg wrote:I disagree with that. Design and plan may be good for professional, large scale project. But for hobbyist beginners, it's better to start exploring, try things, see where that lead.gajop wrote:2. Write down the design and plan for the game you want to make (preferably something that doesn't infringe on an IP).

I'm not suggesting he makes a design like a pro would, but you need to have a better goal than "needs to be Sonic IP". He has played games, and he seems literate, which is enough to write about how the game would play, and what elements it would have.
Simple (Big-Picture/top-down) planning isn't that hard either. Anyone's seen those shopping lists and sticky notes people would put on a fridge, and I'm sure most people by the age of 15 have tried to plan their week at least once.
This won't be perfect, but having to make a plan sometimes helps understand the actual goal better. For one it would help him figure out what skills he needs to learn, and what tools/engines he can use.
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
I'm not saying planning is too hard. But that it is too serious.
Improvisation and playful exploration is better (a this stage).
Improvisation and playful exploration is better (a this stage).
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
Tsk tsk tsk...
These answers already seem to be biased as results to my previous posts, what with continual references IP and age, almost as if everyone is conspiring to let me down... instead of the neutral, "back to basics" answers I was asking for so others reading this could be helped as well.
Well, I've gotten the necessary info from this thread anyways, thanks!
These answers already seem to be biased as results to my previous posts, what with continual references IP and age, almost as if everyone is conspiring to let me down... instead of the neutral, "back to basics" answers I was asking for so others reading this could be helped as well.
Well, I've gotten the necessary info from this thread anyways, thanks!
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
You are a 15 year old kid AND? I was coding duke C by the time I was 16. You say you are serious, I say you have no idea what it is to be serious. You want to make a game start with downloading a game that can be modded, and then modifying it. You are not ready to take on game development. Your "2d" skills are weak at best, so stop selling yourself as a pure artist. you are at the moment at best "ok" at 2d. I wish I had my portfolio from highschool, it would have rocked your world, instead I have only a few scraps from when I was 18. So get off the "I am only good at art give me a break because I am 15" bit. This is one of my few drawings I still have a doodle from a notebook:

IT IS CRAP, not completely but it is crap.
The above may sound harsh but I am trying to be honest. You need honesty, not people bullshitting you tell you it is good. I AM NOT trying to discourage..
You can either focus on your art or take up this project, for you to get better would take a lot of practice. Instead maybe focus on NOT doing sonic based things but instead do your own interpretation of things you see. your unrefined style would make your characters unique. Stop trying for realism unless you are going to really put in the years in an attempt to get better. Given your admitted tendency for procrastination, I don't see that happening.
The reality is game development is hard work and being a procrastinator I feel I am wasting time even posting this. However, maybe this is what you need to hear to spur you to actual effort. Game development is fun for the first few days of "OH COOL MY GUY IS IN GAME." It is hard work and can be grueling, where you have to spend weeks working on parts you hate or picking up skills you need because you didn't have them.
On procrastination:
everyone does it, you are not special, you are just too young to see it! Here is how to work on getting shit done. sit down, for an hour, at you pc, don't go bullshit on a forum, don't browse the web, sit down and start to draw. Really, for 1 hour. You will get bored and start to draw. NOTHING in this world is done instantly
MY advice is to drop the sonic shit, that is not going anywhere, and you are not the first or last teenage kid with an incredibly overvalued personal view of their work ethic to love sonic crap. Find an art style that you can at least do well, then focus on gameplay. Not everything has to be realistic or even cartoony, you are attempting to be a small if not single man team, use simple forms and try and think outside of the box. if you do that, you very well could make a hit. Serious as a heart attack, try just drawing shit in your own style, stay consistent. Too many games look samey, want to be special, fuck realism, fuck established cartoons, fill pages of your notebook with drawings of people and things. ALLOW YOUR LACK OF SKILL TO DEVELOP INTO A STYLE! Skill is only a matter of time and effort, before you know it you WILL get better. Who gives a shit about "talent?" There are 100s of koreans I could pay diddle fuck who are better artists that will produce some cool generic anime crap. Be the guy who gives zero shits and does it his own way, you will stand out more than any of the people out there doing cartoon/realistic shit.
If you want to be an artist, stop trying to be a printer! Printers produce accurate likenesses. Go look at picasso's project forum, his work is bold and unique because he DOESN'T ALLOW himself to do art in the normal fashion. Go look at knorke's tank project, it is interesting, go look at conflict terra. All very different styles and views of things.

IT IS CRAP, not completely but it is crap.
The above may sound harsh but I am trying to be honest. You need honesty, not people bullshitting you tell you it is good. I AM NOT trying to discourage..
You can either focus on your art or take up this project, for you to get better would take a lot of practice. Instead maybe focus on NOT doing sonic based things but instead do your own interpretation of things you see. your unrefined style would make your characters unique. Stop trying for realism unless you are going to really put in the years in an attempt to get better. Given your admitted tendency for procrastination, I don't see that happening.
The reality is game development is hard work and being a procrastinator I feel I am wasting time even posting this. However, maybe this is what you need to hear to spur you to actual effort. Game development is fun for the first few days of "OH COOL MY GUY IS IN GAME." It is hard work and can be grueling, where you have to spend weeks working on parts you hate or picking up skills you need because you didn't have them.
On procrastination:
everyone does it, you are not special, you are just too young to see it! Here is how to work on getting shit done. sit down, for an hour, at you pc, don't go bullshit on a forum, don't browse the web, sit down and start to draw. Really, for 1 hour. You will get bored and start to draw. NOTHING in this world is done instantly
MY advice is to drop the sonic shit, that is not going anywhere, and you are not the first or last teenage kid with an incredibly overvalued personal view of their work ethic to love sonic crap. Find an art style that you can at least do well, then focus on gameplay. Not everything has to be realistic or even cartoony, you are attempting to be a small if not single man team, use simple forms and try and think outside of the box. if you do that, you very well could make a hit. Serious as a heart attack, try just drawing shit in your own style, stay consistent. Too many games look samey, want to be special, fuck realism, fuck established cartoons, fill pages of your notebook with drawings of people and things. ALLOW YOUR LACK OF SKILL TO DEVELOP INTO A STYLE! Skill is only a matter of time and effort, before you know it you WILL get better. Who gives a shit about "talent?" There are 100s of koreans I could pay diddle fuck who are better artists that will produce some cool generic anime crap. Be the guy who gives zero shits and does it his own way, you will stand out more than any of the people out there doing cartoon/realistic shit.
If you want to be an artist, stop trying to be a printer! Printers produce accurate likenesses. Go look at picasso's project forum, his work is bold and unique because he DOESN'T ALLOW himself to do art in the normal fashion. Go look at knorke's tank project, it is interesting, go look at conflict terra. All very different styles and views of things.
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
Uhh... chill dude. What got you so aggressive all of a sudden? Everything's alright. I'm not forcing you or anyone to work for me or anything. Just asking questions. So I'm sorry if I got off on the wrong foot, wherever that was.
Meh, my art sucks 'cause... well I haven't really made anything yet. Nothing(ness), sucks more than bad art. I never planned on posting anything, but someone already posted it first so I had to explain what I was doing. And well, I wanted to keep my plan and who I was "under cover", but I said too much, and here we are now.
The reason I asked these questions was so I don't end up doing the wrong thing and getting bad things out of it, like I did now. I want to know what's the right thing.
Hey look, I was planning to check out how to work with Spring and Lua myself, but since I'm looking at other engines as well, I didn't want too focus on learning it.
And look, I could cut the Sonic crap. I've made some of my own IP that I could make into an RTS, but I don't want to do that now. I didn't even want to explicitly mention that, until my post was exposed so I had to explain.
All I wanted to do was to ask some questions while I'm on this forum, not pitch an idea or get angry and emotional with people I don't know.
Hey, I guess this isn't the right community or engine for me. But the answers on this thread, if they weren't directed at me, could've been helpful for other people browsing around this forum.
Meh, my art sucks 'cause... well I haven't really made anything yet. Nothing(ness), sucks more than bad art. I never planned on posting anything, but someone already posted it first so I had to explain what I was doing. And well, I wanted to keep my plan and who I was "under cover", but I said too much, and here we are now.
The reason I asked these questions was so I don't end up doing the wrong thing and getting bad things out of it, like I did now. I want to know what's the right thing.
Hey look, I was planning to check out how to work with Spring and Lua myself, but since I'm looking at other engines as well, I didn't want too focus on learning it.
And look, I could cut the Sonic crap. I've made some of my own IP that I could make into an RTS, but I don't want to do that now. I didn't even want to explicitly mention that, until my post was exposed so I had to explain.
All I wanted to do was to ask some questions while I'm on this forum, not pitch an idea or get angry and emotional with people I don't know.
Hey, I guess this isn't the right community or engine for me. But the answers on this thread, if they weren't directed at me, could've been helpful for other people browsing around this forum.
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- Posts: 98
- Joined: 22 Sep 2014, 20:29
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
Not sure if it's anger nor emotion, it's a kind of reality check that I know I could've very well used a few times in my life.
With zero sarcasm, you should check game development, business, managing teams, graphics books on amazon, you can judge them by reviews. You will find there are about a million of them and I'm not saying you should read them all, use your judgment depending on the direction you like/need/want. It also helps getting a job later on. Age is not the issue.
You would be surprised how little people read today and how far ahead you can get just by being informed. Prepare for this, continue your studies, try to find an awesome job within the field.. it's a process. You might not think the community here is friendly, and I'm not the guy to judge if it is (I am a cranky mofo), but they keep things moving forward.
With zero sarcasm, you should check game development, business, managing teams, graphics books on amazon, you can judge them by reviews. You will find there are about a million of them and I'm not saying you should read them all, use your judgment depending on the direction you like/need/want. It also helps getting a job later on. Age is not the issue.
You would be surprised how little people read today and how far ahead you can get just by being informed. Prepare for this, continue your studies, try to find an awesome job within the field.. it's a process. You might not think the community here is friendly, and I'm not the guy to judge if it is (I am a cranky mofo), but they keep things moving forward.
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
The best way I've seen it put is that smoth (and maybe a few others) gets really mad at people that have potential but are, through laziness or greed, denying the world access to it. Imagine all the epic stuff the world could have if people like you and I really worked at making something instead of dicking around on the Internet, doing a mindless day-job and imagining things we swear we could do if only we had the "help" we needed.
Nobody is going to help you. If you aren't the kind of person who get's stuff done, focus on your studies and become the best cog in the machine of society that you can be. Dreams are for people willing to pursue them. Pull your Epic Sonic Universe Hybrid Action RTS kicking and screaming from the void of nothingness into reality through sheer force of will to prove us wrong.
Or design a board/card/tabletop/role-playing game. Those are an easier way for a guy with a design brain and an artistic streak to get something out there...
Nobody is going to help you. If you aren't the kind of person who get's stuff done, focus on your studies and become the best cog in the machine of society that you can be. Dreams are for people willing to pursue them. Pull your Epic Sonic Universe Hybrid Action RTS kicking and screaming from the void of nothingness into reality through sheer force of will to prove us wrong.
Or design a board/card/tabletop/role-playing game. Those are an easier way for a guy with a design brain and an artistic streak to get something out there...
- Silentwings
- Posts: 3720
- Joined: 25 Oct 2008, 00:23
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
What works is proving that you can do things.Currency works in the proprietary world, but how does it work for the world of hobby?
In a little more detail, my experience with Spring - I was a player for many years before I got involved with developing anything - is this: For starting new Spring projects, I think your only real chance of attracting contributors is starting it yourself (which includes reading wikis etc etc and teaching yourself the appropriate skills to start solo) and hoping others like what you produce enough to join in. For "old" Spring projects, there is one very easy formula to get involved; look up their bugtracker and offer fixes for bugs or wanted features.
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
This thread is getting whack, freestyle ego rap for the sake of taking a selfie...
Now where is the mic...
You could, in theory, use such tricks to get others to code your game.
For most languages/frameworks/engines that would not work at all, but for example in Spring everything is quite "interchangeable."
If you want feature-X in your spring-game, you can just take the feature-X-code-file from another spring-game and copy it into your game. Maybe adjust it a bit. That is pretty unique. If you can not do the adjusting then try to get others to do.
So for example take code from another game and ask "Can someone pleeeease adjust this a bit so it works for my game?"
Maybe someone will do it - Tada!
Or post: "Look here, my aweseome game. Now I just need this tiiiiny piece of code, who wants to add it?"
Maybe out of boredeom someone will do it.
What also works it to scream very loud. After a while someone might give you the one line of code that you wanted, just to shut you up.
The next day do it again, to get the second line.
Post something, really anything: Even if it sucks or is just a story or idea, people will be polite and mostly only post "constructive", positive things.
You start to believe in you. They start to believe in you.
Born from vacuum, the tornado has struck!
Now it is easy, just write something like "This engine sucks, it is too hard to do XY!" or "This tutorial is incomplete and too hard!"
Some people might be eager to show you how easy it is.
Just never let your guard down and never admit you have no idea what you are doing:
Walk fast. Look stressed. Always be in a hurry.
Nobdy questions the man with the important looking clipboard.
If all else fails you can offer money in hobby enviroment, too.
If you can ignore your selfrespect for long enough and do that long enough then after many years you might have something resembling a game.
The longer you do it the easier it gets: people eventually start to believe in your status as a developer. And if they do not, well you can always tell them. (Your game should be proof enough.)
Sadly, it does not work at all. It is a downwards spiral powered by borebom of others, pressure and anger instead of skill.
For every tiny step you will need hand-holding.
You will become frustrated every time you try to do something.
After many years you will have nothing learned and have no idea what is going on under the hood of your game.
You will not be able to understand what is said in discussions of other game making peoplepersons.
But maybe all that does not matter if it gets you just one more line of code....a little hotfix...
Now where is the mic...
Yes, that is in theory one way to do it.Raptor177 wrote:So, let's forget my project, forget the idea, forget the engines, forget the IP, and forget me. How does a non-programmer get a team together and make a game? Currency works in the proprietary world, but how does it work for the world of hobby?
Do people use their status as known people? Do they pitch highly detailed plans? The power of persuasion? Or merely the exchange of skills as I've been answered here?
You could, in theory, use such tricks to get others to code your game.
For most languages/frameworks/engines that would not work at all, but for example in Spring everything is quite "interchangeable."
If you want feature-X in your spring-game, you can just take the feature-X-code-file from another spring-game and copy it into your game. Maybe adjust it a bit. That is pretty unique. If you can not do the adjusting then try to get others to do.
So for example take code from another game and ask "Can someone pleeeease adjust this a bit so it works for my game?"
Maybe someone will do it - Tada!
Or post: "Look here, my aweseome game. Now I just need this tiiiiny piece of code, who wants to add it?"
Maybe out of boredeom someone will do it.
What also works it to scream very loud. After a while someone might give you the one line of code that you wanted, just to shut you up.
The next day do it again, to get the second line.
Post something, really anything: Even if it sucks or is just a story or idea, people will be polite and mostly only post "constructive", positive things.
You start to believe in you. They start to believe in you.
Born from vacuum, the tornado has struck!
Now it is easy, just write something like "This engine sucks, it is too hard to do XY!" or "This tutorial is incomplete and too hard!"
Some people might be eager to show you how easy it is.
Just never let your guard down and never admit you have no idea what you are doing:
Walk fast. Look stressed. Always be in a hurry.
Nobdy questions the man with the important looking clipboard.
If all else fails you can offer money in hobby enviroment, too.
If you can ignore your selfrespect for long enough and do that long enough then after many years you might have something resembling a game.
The longer you do it the easier it gets: people eventually start to believe in your status as a developer. And if they do not, well you can always tell them. (Your game should be proof enough.)
Sadly, it does not work at all. It is a downwards spiral powered by borebom of others, pressure and anger instead of skill.
For every tiny step you will need hand-holding.
You will become frustrated every time you try to do something.
After many years you will have nothing learned and have no idea what is going on under the hood of your game.
You will not be able to understand what is said in discussions of other game making peoplepersons.
But maybe all that does not matter if it gets you just one more line of code....a little hotfix...
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
Well, I haven't gotten anything done, mainly the reason I'm not exactly ready to even begin to get it done. That's the reason my first posts didn't refer anything to my project; because right now, I just have a ton of non-technical questions (don't get me started on the technical ones, and you know that...), and so far, this thread has been really useful in understanding the mentality of the programmer, for that I can't deny having to thank you.
Re: Etiquette for non-programmers who want to make a game?
I think this is circling the drain.
To directly answer your question:
"How does a non-programmer acquire a team to make a game?"
"They do not."
If you want to get somewhere, show what you are capable of by playing a few games in the community and posting some art in the relevant forum.
To directly answer your question:
"How does a non-programmer acquire a team to make a game?"
"They do not."
If you want to get somewhere, show what you are capable of by playing a few games in the community and posting some art in the relevant forum.