hosts lost their mappool

[knorke]

Not sure if error or on purpose, by hosts allow all maps.
Result:

(unsync and "you are not allowed to call command "start" in current context."-spam in battleroom)

and then:

(no players ingame)

[Forboding Angel]

It was on purpose. Players are sick of those same maps all the time. Kids have to grow up sometime.

[Forboding Angel]

The list is still there BTW. !maplist popular

[Forboding Angel]

If you ring unsynced people weblobby will report their downlaod progress and what it is that they are downloading.

[knorke]

Maybe try playing on map "Marijuana Fusion" and see what it is like?

There is now 1085 maps.
There is no way you did test them all.

There are 5 types of maps, sorted from "very bad" to "good":

1) Maps that simply crash.
For example:
<[2up]knorke> !map
* EvoRTSDedicated1 * Automatic random map rotation: next map is "duke nukem 4"
This map will cause crash on load unless played with zero-K.

2) Maps that do not crash but are otherwise problematic.
For example: Very long loading times on "hexfarm"


3) Maps that are unplayable or no fun
For example: On map "WWF_RAW" not enought flat land to build a factory.

For example: "Mininuggets_v3" is bad for PvP - Left side gets all the resources, right side gets none.

4) Maps that are ugly
For example: "Mininuggets_v3" - corrupted terrain when zooming out.
Pretty much most Kernel Panic maps: "Why is the terrain black?"

5) Maps that need spring features 1.0 to be downloaded
Was that fixed in lobby and does it always work?


6) Duplicate maps
<EvoRTSDedicated3> Tabula
<EvoRTSDedicated3> Tabula-v2
<EvoRTSDedicated3> Tabula-v3
<EvoRTSDedicated3> Tabula-v4
<EvoRTSDedicated3> Tabula-v5b
<EvoRTSDedicated3> Tabula_Flooded_v04
Causes much unnessecary waiting time while downloading again another version.


7) Maps that look nice and work and are fun
Not a high requirement to have only those maps in mappool.


Each of the mapnames if just one EXAMPLE of a broken map.
There are many more in each category.

All this was known since day one, or in fact since years.
It is nothing new that certain maps only work with certain mods.
Limited mappool was the only way to keep it trouble-free for players.

It was on purpose. Players are sick of those same maps all the time.

[Forboding Angel]

Don't blame me for the failings of plasmaserver and the poor administration of maps on springfiles.

Tough shit. It hasn't been a problem (it has been, it's just been ignored) for the past 9 years, so now all of a sudden it's a problem and it's MY job to fix it? Goobypls.

Give me access to add/remove shit from plasmaserver, then we'll talk. Until then, address your complaints to Licho.

[knorke]

springfiles or Licho have nothing to do with this.

It is possible to have limited list of maps on hosts:
You could have just added a few more good maps to your hosts, you already have rights for that.
Instead you just added over 1000 maps, without any quality controll.

It hasn't been a problem (it has been, it's just been ignored) for the past 9 years

Experienced players know which maps are good and which ones crash or suck. Newbies do not: if the game crashes then they have no idea that it might because of a incompatible map.
It never was so big problem because experienced players made up the largest part of spring, in the past. And appearently in the future too, with decisions like this.

it's just been ignored

No, it has been solved.
For example many BA hosts have a list of maps that seems sensible and zero-K has its "featured maps" system. The maplist is something that Evo can do, too.

I don't know what the screenshot is supposed to show.

[gajop]

I'm a bit more extreme than knorke, I think you should have fewer maps even if they were all good. Too many maps and it takes forever to learn them, constant downloads become tiring and it makes it harder for you to distribute the entire game's map pack included with the game.

Not saying everything should become a DSD host but do you really need more than 50 good maps?

[Forboding Angel]

This is a spring problem. Even if I put a list on my hosts,t hat doesn't stop the springie hosts or the the spawned hosts (which are springie.

This is not my issue. If you don't like it, complain to licho and whoever manages springfiles and plasmaserver.

[Forboding Angel]

Feel free to provide me with a list of 100 good maps and we'll talk. You can use the list that the evo hosts already have to start with, and as I have told knorke before, the 10 map pool still exists. !maplist popular.

[Forboding Angel]

So in the interest of questions, I have implemented the following maplist:

[popular]
Eye_Of_Horus_v2
Grts_Messa_008
ArcticPlainsV2.1
Titan-v2
TitanDuel
BlackStar
Badlands
CenterrockV12
Nuclear_Winter_v1
OnyxCauldron1.6
Parched_mesa-v03
IsisDelta_v02
DesertSiege_v2b
Battle for PlanetXVII-v01
EvoRTS - Winter Basin - v16
EvoRTS - New Iammas - v12
MoonQ20x
Emain Macha v3
EvoRTS - Altored Divide - v12
DistrictWar_v2
Comet Catcher Redux
EvoRTS - Delta Siege - v12
DesertTriad
DryRiverV10
EvoRTS - Higher Grounds - v13
Industrial Revolution v1
Tabula-v4
DesertCliffsV1
Koom Valley V2
Escarpment-v2
myFirstMap2

If you have a problem with it, tough shit, I don't give a fuck.

The map issue is a springwide problem, it is not my problem to deal with, so if you don't like the shitty management of maps and plasmaserver, look no further than whoever has admin over springfiles and plasmaserver. That person is not me.

[knorke]

Even if I put a list on my hosts,t hat doesn't stop the springie hosts or the the spawned hosts (which are springie.

Those are the most used ones though. At least fix what you can?

the 10 map pool still exists. !maplist popular.

Textcommands are useless because new players do not know about them.

Feel free to provide me with a list of 100 good maps and we'll talk.

I am sure you can do that without help.
The maplist of [ACE] BA seems decent base if you remove some of the fun-maps like "duck".
If you are for some reason unable to find 100 maps then put as many as you could find. But no reason to just enable all maps!
Also think about what gajop wrote.


On new maplist:
1) myFirstMap2: The name alone shows that it is fail.
Final, non-ugly version is called Hide_and_Seek
2) Some maps require Spring Features 1.0, did you test if that now works reliably?
3) Many large maps = long pathing times. Since Evo has no progress or animation in loadscreen, on first games it wil look like game has frozen.
4) Grts_Messa_008, EvoRTS - Winter Basin - v16
At least those have no startboxes set

[Forboding Angel]

On new maplist:
1) myFirstMap2: The name alone shows that it is fail.
Final, non-ugly version is called Hide_and_Seek
2) Some maps require Spring Features 1.0, did you test if that now works reliably?
3) Many large maps = long pathing times. Since Evo has no progress or animation in loadscreen, on first games it wil look like game has frozen.
4) Grts_Messa_008, EvoRTS - Winter Basin - v16
At least those have no startboxes set

1) This version looks better than the final, plus, while the name is silly, in this version it was an excellent map, looks great, played great, and there are vids of it up on the evo youtube channel, so, too bad.

2) I don't give a flying shit whether they work properly for springers or not, but for steam users they will work fine.

3) Tough shit. Feel free to submit a fix for the loading bar.

4) I am not dedicated enough to go through 5 hosts of 30 maps each and set startboxes for all of the maps. The server tells new users to type !help for a reason. That they don't sucks, but is out of my control.

Frankly the startbox system is in and of itself stupid and lazy design. No other rts engine uses such a terrible method.

[Silentwings]

Feel free to submit a fix for the loading bar.

You are welcome to use the one from http://imolarpg.dyndns.org/trac/balates ... k/luaintro - it's just the one from basecontent, resized and moved into the bottom left of the screen.

On spads hosts you can copy configs for startboxes/maplist between hosts; springie must have some similar functionality but I've no idea where springies docs are. You can see the maplist on any spads host with !listmaps - I guess one of the smaller BA hosts would be a reasonable starting point for an Evo maplist.

Frankly the startbox system is in and of itself stupid.

There are enough callins/outs to fully reimplement startboxes & so on in lua, although it's a bit of work. You can make a host where startboxes are simply not allowed & everything to do with spawning is done in-game e.g. BA does this for FFA and team FFA.

[Jools]

Here are the saved boxes from semprini, a spads autohost that has been running for maybe 3 years. It is a unix type text file with corresponding line endings. There were some issue when porting over the dos text file from windows (always one box missing), but it has been corrected now for most popular maps.

Share and enjoy!

[Anarchid]

Give me access to add/remove shit from plasmaserver, then we'll talk.

I fail to see how globally censoring the whole spring content distribution system is even thinkable.

Frankly the startbox system is in and of itself stupid and lazy design. No other rts engine uses such a terrible method.

Startboxes are optional. You can always revert to fixed positions if you choose so?

[==Troy==]

Tbh, Forb, you may be right in your blame of the available tools, but you can't be arguing that its "not your fault" that users cant figure our the tools you provided them with, or ignore their complaints because the tools you have given them are "not made by you". In the end it was your choice to choose what was available, and it may have been better to delay the steam release until such major issues are sorted out.

I am, quite frankly, amazed that you have managed to get that far with your project, but the current attitude displayed towards the users and unwillingness to fix the issues most likely will affect the success of the project long-term...

Tbh, split up the problem and dedicate & trust those people do help you out. You aren't willing to fix startboxes? let someone else do it for you, I am sure there are people who are both able to do it and are willing to help. Atm you seem to be taking everything on yourself, and quite clearly, are not able to cope.

[Forboding Angel]

Give me access to add/remove shit from plasmaserver, then we'll talk.

I fail to see how globally censoring the whole spring content distribution system is even thinkable.

Not censoring, curating. And the process isn't complicated. Total Annihilation had far more maps and Tamec still managed. It would be simple for spring to curate maps as they come in.

We have joke maps, senna's bullshit dsd ba mapmods, etc. None of which have any business being in the available map pool on plasmaserver.

If you guys want to take this project (spring) seriously, then lets stop sitting around with our thumbs up our asses and take it seriously.

Tbh, Forb, you may be right in your blame of the available tools, but you can't be arguing that its "not your fault" that users cant figure our the tools you provided them with...

Stop right there. I didn't blame people for not being able to use tools that I provided them with. I blamed whoever is ultimately in charge of springfiles and plasma server for letting it turn into the cesspool it is currently. As a result, those problems ripple out and cause TONS of issues elsewhere. Therefore, the shitty all map issue is not my fault. Custom spawned springies are used very often. As a result, all plasmaserver maps are available. I don't see knorke's hypocritical ass climbing all over licho.

it may have been better to delay the steam release until such major issues are sorted out.

The steam release came a week earlier than I intended because I clicked the wrong friday in steam's backend. Shit happens.

This would have happened no matter when it was released, and it wouldn't have mattered what game it was. If you think ZK would have fared much better, you are delusional. ZK would have had less lobby issues I am sure, but most of these issues aren't really lobby problems. With ZK, it is highly likely that the download issues would have been far greater. Spring's infrastructure has been in decay for years and apparently I'm the only one who gives a shit about it. I also am the one with the least power to do a goddamn thing about it.

I am, quite frankly, amazed that you have managed to get that far with your project, but the current attitude displayed towards the users and unwillingness to fix the issues most likely will affect the success of the project long-term...

That came off as insulting. I'll assume that that isn't what you meant.

Unwillingness to fix issues? Have you been paying attention to the lobby and steam forums? I have been doing nothing but fixing issues.

Tbh, split up the problem and dedicate & trust those people do help you out.

I have. There are many admins of the evo hosts (all the zk host admins are admins on them actually).

You aren't willing to fix startboxes? let someone else do it for you, I am sure there are people who are both able to do it and are willing to help.

Of course. As with what has happened on other servers, over time the startboxes will be set.

Atm you seem to be taking everything on yourself, and quite clearly, are not able to cope.

I am handing things just fine.

I wish I was kidding when I say this, but Knorke quite literally blames me for everything bad in spring (I'm not kidding nor exaggerating... It's true). There are chatlogs that would make you cry with disbelief.