The f*** is with the building instructions wiki for win?

[Super Mario]

I try building spring for personally killing time for old time sake until I see this shit here:

Warning: compiling on spring on Windows mostly cause problems, we heavily suggest to use Linux for developing the spring rts engine!
Some reasons:

setting up a build environment takes a lot more time on windows
compiling is slower on windows
compiling on windows is badly tested (which possible lead to some random / unknown / weird errors)
windows is closed source, while spring is open source, the philosohpy doesn't fit well together

Let me tear the listed "reasons" apart shall we?

setting up a build environment takes a lot more time on windows

Not really, all you need is to install mingw via installer, download the cmake and spring source files and you're good to go.

compiling is slower on windows

How slow? If it's just couple min difference than it's no big deal.
I rather compiles it slowly yet successfully than not compile it at all.

compiling on windows is badly tested (which possible lead to some random / unknown / weird errors)

Or maybe it because you people insist that people download and install Linux for the sole purpose of developing the spring engine, that no one bothers to test compiling spring on windows? Have that occur to you guys?
And this final reason here, is what makes me fucking rage.

windows is closed source, while spring is open source, the philosohpy doesn't fit well together

WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT PHILOSOPHY HERE!?
Look, I don't mind you people license this software under the gnu license, but to give philosophy as a reason of not to compiling it on windows is frankly BULLSHIT.
WHY THE FUCK DO YOU NEED WINDOWS TO BE OPEN SOURCE ANYWAYS!?
I will admit, I have zero experience as a game programer here, but for a game like spring, requiring access to the OS code here, should set up alarms for anyone who had any coding experience here.
God damn it guys, get it together.

User was warned for this post (Felony 1, Felony 2)
-- FLOZi

[smoth]

calm down dear, it's ok, someone posted an article inserting opinion. Why not edit the article removing the opinionated nonsense?

[Forboding Angel]

I completely agree mario. For some reason, the people here have the idea that because spring is open source, everything that it uses must also be open source as well.

That's not only including the engine but the website and various other things as well. Its very rage inducing because its f****** stupid on more levels than any sane person is capable of articulating, but I digress.

[Nemo]

At risk of getting involved in a really silly freak-out, why couldn't you have said it like this?

"hey, guys, I think this entry in the wiki isn't super welcoming to potential windows developers that might be able to help out. anyone mind if I remove it?"

Note that the person who added that disclaimer (Abma) has contributed (and continues to contribute) a whole lot to Spring. Raging at people who are putting tons of time into the project isn't a great way to motivate them to keep doing so, no matter how much you disagree with their philosophy.

On a technical level, yelling about how 'wanting to see the OS source' is a red flag is pretty goofy. Spring runs a lock-step physics simulation between multiple operating systems. Any little difference in how that simulation runs will lead to desync (thus, no working multiplayer). You can't see how being able to peek into OS guts might be helpful when you're trying to debug sync weirdness? It's a wonder (and a testament to a lot of incredible work by Spring devs) that Spring works as well as it does with cross-platform sync.

[smoth]

I would not take super mario too seriously

[CarRepairer]

Browse his other posts, see only anger, let him stew.

[jK]

setting up a build environment takes a lot more time on windows

Not really, all you need is to install mingw via installer, download the cmake and spring source files and you're good to go.

Not true, it's complicated atm to build Spring under windows. Stock mingw doesn't work. You must use mingw64 for used c++11 features and then install pthread for c++11 threading features. All in all this can break in many places, so till now no one build recent versions under windows. Even under linux it isn't simple to cross build it. Abma just found a working combination (and again it's not stock mingw!).

compiling is slower on windows

How slow? If it's just couple min difference than it's no big deal.
I rather compiles it slowly yet successfully than not compile it at all.

Sure this is foobar. Also it's not slow when it works. ONLY compiling in a VM is slow. (mingw is _damn_ slow in vbox)

compiling on windows is badly tested (which possible lead to some random / unknown / weird errors)

Or maybe it because you people insist that people download and install Linux for the sole purpose of developing the spring engine, that no one bothers to test compiling spring on windows? Have that occur to you guys?

blabla

[Silentwings]

Or maybe it because you people insist that people download and install Linux for the sole purpose of developing the spring engine, that no one bothers to test compiling spring on windows? Have that occur to you guys?

Yes, it did. Yes, I compile Spring on windows. Yes, it's hard. Yes, everyone who does this knows it's harder than on linux. No, it isn't a conspiracy. Yes, the reason is essentially that linux has a well maintained toolchain geared towards open source software and Windows doesn't. Yes, some people call that philosophy.

[Jools]

I don't know so much about compiling, but ins't the idea that it produces machine code from human readable code? How can the transformation process depend on the OS the compiler is run on? And once the machine code is produced, isn't it the same machine code for both linux and windows?

Also, what's Felony 1 and 2? Maybe those should be defined somewhere so that this moderation process is transparent and not cencorship.

[Silentwings]

The output of compilers, in the sense you are thinking of, is heavily OS dependent.

The 'felonies' are defined where you would expect them to be defined - in the forum rules on http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6693. I suggest doing a simple search before accusing people of 'censorship'

[dansan]

If you don't understand something - ask.
If there is something wrong on a wiki - edit it.
If you're in a bad mood - step on the balcony and through random food on random people, but under no circumstances use the Internet.

[Jools]

Also always assume good intent. At the end of the day, more viewpoints and constructive criticism do infact improve the wiki and that benefits all of us. I have also looked at that wiki page before and I had also the same questions, and now I got them answered, so it's good.

[Jools]

If you're in a bad mood - step on the balcony and through random food on random people, but under no circumstances use the Internet.

When I was a child, I used to go to the balcony and throw water balloons on random people. I thought they wouldn't see me. But they did and came to ring on our door, and then it was a quite shameful experience.

[abma]

this warning(s) were added because they are the truth. i guess i've add most of them when i tried to fix compile on windows and raged a bit.

currently no active dev seems to compile spring on windows, this is why its mostly untested. feel free to test/fix compile on windows and adjust the compile instructions.

every warning point is still valid, if you want to know the reasons, ask specificly.

I try building spring for personally killing time for old time sake until I see this shit here

@Super Mario:
please build it first and then come back to the forum when you did it successfully on windows. i guess this will answer most of your questions.

[dansan]

When I was a child, I used to go to the balcony and throw water balloons on random people. I thought they wouldn't see me. But they did and came to ring on our door, and then it was a quite shameful experience.

I did that too and it was the most intensive thriller when the totally wet postman knocked on the door, and we hid in the flat - because we only did it when our parents were away - loved it :D

[Super Mario]

I'm sorry, but that final reason listed on the wiki just made me explode here. If it isn't written by the engine devs themselves than I am severely apology for what I did. It just that the "philosophy" reason itself, it... just... so... stupid... it like a linux fanboy free software foundation follower with no coding experience just wrote that which have no part in the build instructions and turn it into a platform for advocating Linux, which I had enough of their crap on the internet as it is.

[smoth]

Mario I stopped reading at "I am sorry but"

No you are not

For those unfamiliar with american double speak and ways of talking.

I am sorry but is broken down as follows:

"I am sorry" I am apologizing
"but followed with bullshit reasoning" but I am not really and will argue the same point again but try to come off like I was right still.

you never say I am sorry but when you are sorry. You only ever say it when you are trying to apease the person in order to reassert your argument. so the moment you see I am sorry but, it is not often worth continuing to listen/read.

Mario, there was no reason to make a post that ragey. I said it earlier, if you disagreed, you could edit the page. There are TALK sections on each page where you can post discussion and disagreement. This original post was tantamount to a flame at the person(s) who posted the page and will only serve to distance them from you.

[FLOZi]

Edited away the 'opinion' part, as I agree it is outside of the scope of the page.

[Super Mario]

Mario I stopped reading at "I am sorry but"

No you are not

For those unfamiliar with american double speak and ways of talking.

I am sorry but is broken down as follows:

"I am sorry" I am apologizing
"but followed with bullshit reasoning" but I am not really and will argue the same point again but try to come off like I was right still.

you never say I am sorry but when you are sorry. You only ever say it when you are trying to apease the person in order to reassert your argument. so the moment you see I am sorry but, it is not often worth continuing to listen/read.

How about asking for clarification on what I meant by saying "I'm sorry" instead of projecting on to me of what you think what I meant?

Mario, there was no reason to make a post that ragey.

I. just. explain. why I was so upset when I wrote that, but you didn't read that part and just label as "bullshit reasoning".

[smoth]

Edited away the 'opinion' part, as I agree it is outside of the scope of the page.

Bam, done