Bitcoin mining made easy

[KDR_11k]

So which is it supposed to be, stocks or money, an investment or a simple means of transferring value without lugging heavy bags of rice around? It's acting like the former right now which rather undermines the idea of an open currency. As far as investments go it might be workable (at least for a while), the banks have invested in much crazier things but again I don't see how this has any chance in hell of being a viable currency for actual business. As a system of allowing free money transfers without needing a third party it might be nice but the need to convert into it before sending and back from it afterwards kinda loses the advantage of having no transfer fees because you get exchange fees instead.

But that's not really what the goldbugs are after, is it? What goldbugs want is a fixed money pool so they can hoard money and not worry about inflation. Which is exactly why modern money doesn't have a fixed money pool because that hoarding is bad for the economy as a whole and deflation is terrible because it rewards those who sit on their money vs those who risk it on actually producing items of value.

[varikonniemi]

As far as investments go it might be workable (at least for a while), the banks have invested in much crazier things but again I don't see how this has any chance in hell of being a viable currency for actual business.

So in your world Reddit, Wordpress, Subway, Baidu, gyft, and countless other very well known companies who already accept Bitcoin are not actual. I bet you are the CEO of an imaginary company.

As on the topic of what Bitcoin actually is: a protocol. A protocol that can be used to build various services, currency/money being one of them. Others are property ownership ledgers, public contracts, data retention, and many more.

You should watch the senate hearings about Bitcoin. It was repeated several times that Bitcoin is legitimate, it is an actual financial instrument, it has some clear benefits over traditional payment methods, is not used to launder money etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzudhWb_HOY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvBzmY73AlY

[smoth]

I bet you are the CEO of an imaginary company.

when you post things like this it is hard to take you seriously.

It was repeated several times that Bitcoin is legitimate, it is an actual financial instrument, it has some clear benefits over traditional payment methods, is not used to launder money etc.

what?

[varikonniemi]

An actual CEO welcomes more business and significantly higher profit margins.

Yes, Bitcoin is not used to launder money. Many apparently thought it was.

[KDR_11k]

As far as investments go it might be workable (at least for a while), the banks have invested in much crazier things but again I don't see how this has any chance in hell of being a viable currency for actual business.

So in your world Reddit, Wordpress, Subway, Baidu, gyft, and countless other very well known companies who already accept Bitcoin are not actual. I bet you are the CEO of an imaginary company.

They use it as a payment method and likely convert that bitcoin back ASAP (or hold it as an investment). I doubt that they're paying their suppliers or employees in BTC.

[varikonniemi]

A good profit margin for a company is 10%. When you pay 4% credit card fees on your sales, your profit margin sinks to 6%. Using Bitpay you get 9%. That is a net 50% increase in your profit. You also can forget charge backs, identity thefts, fraud etc.

The reason many products can be bought cheaper with Bitcoin than with US dollars is because there are businesses who transfer that 4% saving directly into their prices.

And this is not revolutionary?

[Cheesecan]

A good profit margin for a company is 10%. When you pay 4% credit card fees on your sales, your profit margin sinks to 6%. Using Bitpay you get 9%. That is a net 50% increase in your profit. You also can forget charge backs, identity thefts, fraud etc.

I wouldn't call 10% gross profit margin good... plus credit card fee is much lower than that, even for a small corner store..

You can also avoid credit card fee through wire transfer (most common way of paying invoices) etc.

Hardly revolutionary. Don't fall for the hype! This is a tulip bubble.

[very_bad_soldier]

As soon as mining of bitcoins becomes unprofitable it is expected that a transaction fee is charged too by the miners in the bitcoin world. How else is a miner who provides CPU power supposed to earn money?
The network would need HUGE amounts of CPU power to run a reasonable portion of the finance system. That does not come for free. Especially when there is nothing left to mine.

[smoth]

This is a tulip bubble.

holy shit. I was talking to my dad about this again today and I asked him what he thought and he said the same shit!

[varikonniemi]

CC charges in the US are 3-5% for a normal company. Big business has their own deals and pay less, this is true. But still not as little as with Bitpay.

Wire transfer in the US generally costs 5-10 USD. It is not like in europe where we wire the money for free.

There has been a TX fee in effect for years. It recently surpassed 10k $ per block. That alone is plenty of incentive to mine. Mining will never become unprofitable, because there always will remain enough miners for the Bitcoin network to function flawlessly. The more inefficient miners will have to turn off their operation sooner, and so the free markets have once again maximized efficiency still ensuring quality of service.

I cannot even begin to grasp how you compare a non psychoactive flower in importance with a technology and way of doing business which in the real world may increase your profit by 50%.

[klapmongool]

I cannot even begin to grasp how you compare a non psychoactive flower in importance with a technology and way of doing business which in the real world may increase your profit by 50%.

The fact that you don't understand the comparison and you emphasize the immense potential profit only confirms the tulip bubble theory.

[KDR_11k]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

for people lacking the historical context.

[varikonniemi]

klap: i wonder who does not understand?

Stop grasping at straws and comparing Bitcoin to the tulip mania. They have absolutely nothing in common but mania.

If you must speculate on the bubble nature, read about the dot com bubble, it actually has some paralleling aspects. And read 'I Am Not Master of Events', a book about the currency bubble in 18th-century France that ended with investors losing most of their money. Bitcoin is both a currency and a revolutionary technology, so getting to know those two examples should suffice for you to realize why Bitcoin is different.

[klapmongool]

klap: i wonder who does not understand?

Stop grasping at straws and comparing Bitcoin to the tulip mania. They have absolutely nothing in common but mania.

If you must speculate on the bubble nature, read about the dot com bubble, it actually has some paralleling aspects. And read 'I Am Not Master of Events', a book about the currency bubble in 18th-century France that ended with investors losing most of their money. Bitcoin is both a currency and a revolutionary technology, so getting to know those two examples should suffice for you to realize why Bitcoin is different.

You said you didn't see the comparison. You then proceeded to rebut the comparison by saying how much profit one could make with bitcoin. If you don't see the irony in that this discussion is a lost cause.

[varikonniemi]

Not make profit, but save on existing expenses (which results in net profit).

The function of being a very cheap method to transfer money has almost nothing to do with the spot valuation of Bitcoin. It could crash to one dollar tomorrow, and Bitpay would still offer the same revolutionary service.

Tulips did not offer anything after their valuation went to crap.

[FireStorm_]

When I first heard about bit-coin I had assumed it had something to do with Protein folding. I had picked up something somewhere about using your pc to help science; Doing much needed calculations would be rewarded with bit-coins, I figured.

But then I realised (I think this tread raised my interest) that the bitcoin-mining-devices where just calculating something without clear use or meaning. That seemed like a waste to me.

If everything was really as simple as "time is money" then bit-coins might work very well, but I for one don't think it is.

I guess I'm comparing...
'A craftsman using a pc to make a game and sell it for printed money.'
to...
'A craftsman using a pc to print money.'
For now I'd rather play with games than bit-coins, like I'd rather eat an apple than bullion. I think I'd want to try to buy food with it first if I had them, a bit like smoth proposed.

This also made me think of the role of gold though-out human history. And also made me think of the effects of seemingly using gold quite differently the last few decades. Economical and scientificly.

[varikonniemi]

As i have already said, mining secures the network and is essential to make Bitcoin possible. It is orders of magnitude more efficient than running the existing financial networks.

Gold prices have come down 30% this year. This makes Bitcoin seem almost stable.

[FireStorm_]

Tulips did not offer anything after their valuation went to crap.

Perhaps not. I'd say they are still worth alot today. They are still being grown, traded, and used as decoration a lot. For all I know its a bit like: There once was one tulip wroth a billion credits, now there are a billion tulips worth one credit.
So there might be a future for bit-coin, I don't know.

But I'd be careful though. Can a bit-coin be used as decoration? I've never seen one. (And I think the best thing about a bulb is, it might be edible. )

[varikonniemi]

Of course one should be ready to lose everything they invest in Bitcoin. It is not mainstream ready yet. It might never be. But i believe it will :)

ps. i would not try to eat tulips

[FireStorm_]

Well, it has been done in the past.
If you want to give the dish a try some day just ask me to translate this recipe for you