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New Console Generation

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luckywaldo7
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by luckywaldo7 » 09 Jul 2013, 21:08

They did not mention that you would not be able to play Diablo 3 after buying it, due to their servers not being up to the task of handling everyone trying to play the single-player game they bought.

Similar deal with SimCity.
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Mr. Bob
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by Mr. Bob » 09 Jul 2013, 22:11

EDIT: Goddammit the submit button posted this like 5 times. Sorry about that.
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by Mr. Bob » 09 Jul 2013, 22:12

EDIT: lol so I still don't know why it posted my post like 5 times when I hit submit.
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by Mr. Bob » 09 Jul 2013, 22:12

So, apparently, I'm the only person on the planet who was not only fine with the X1's policies before the change, but was actually rooting for them. I wasn't a fan of how the Ps4 didn't really make a push in the digital direction.

Digital distribution is pretty much the greatest thing to ever happen to the market. You're cutting out enormous middle men and thus lowering prices over all. All of the DRM policies they had were just pointing in that direction, as far as I could tell. Steam essentially does all the same shit, without the 24 hour check-in. So, "unfortunately," the 1% of people that not only don't have internet, but also do play games won't be able to play.

---

And, since we're talking about piracy, I don't see any moral issue with pirating, but I also don't see any moral issue with enacting measures to prevent piracy. If people are going to pirate your software, eliminating potential profits, then why not require them to check in with your servers? You don't have the right to be able to pirate any software just because software is software. Obviously, the seller isn't technically loosing anything as its just cloned information (and not being taken out of a brick and mortar stock) but the seller can still take action to prevent it, because developers have the right to make whatever they want. DRM is part of the software in the first place, and if you don't want that software, just don't buy it. If you can't pirate it, too bad.

Its so fucking retarded how both sellers and consumers try to further or prevent piracy via moral means. That's ridiculous. The consumer can pirate if he can pirate, and doesn't want to support the developer. Which is fine. The seller, on the other hand, has every right to modify their software to prevent this, and if they don't, they're inept. It boggles my mind that this is still an issue.

--

The only problem I can see with DRM beyond the whole piracy issue people have with it, is that it obviously requires an internet connection. But, this is more and more becoming a ridiculous gripe. We're rapidly moving towards a future where essentially everyone has a constant and reliable internet connection. We're already at the point where the people who don't do not represent a large enough consumer base to justify catering to them. (Which is not a bad thing, by the way, that's just how business works. You sell to those who buy.) Google Fiber is already offering free 5mb connections in Kansas, and soon in Texas. That's far far more than enough to support DRM. And, the average connection in first world countries (see the next section) is enough to easily support it anyway.

---

On the note of sales in first world countries, there's this weird sort of consideration for third world countries in the gaming world surrounding always-online right now. Let's crush this with an example! Yay!

The Ps3 sold more than the 360 world wide, but the 360 sold far more in the US. Total, the Ps3 sold more hardware. But, the Ps3 didn't do nearly as well as the 360. How could this be? Because, console manufacturers don't make shit from their console hardware. In fact, they often loose money on it. They make the lion share of their profits from software. Games. The person who sells the most games is the person who makes the most money. This is why the 360 did so well, is because US (and other first world) citizens simply buy a great deal more games than people in third world countries, or barely first world countries, do. A lot more.

Thus, it makes perfectly good sense to target the paying audience. There's no reason to stay behind in support of the audience that doesn't have whatever technology (in this case, constant internet service) just because you feel bad. That makes no sense. The infrastructure in these places only develops when there's a demand for it anyway, so generate that demand. We have asphalt roads because we started selling cars. Generate a demand for support of a product, and the infrastructure will follow.
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by Mr. Bob » 09 Jul 2013, 22:13

EDIT: Don't know why it multiposted this.
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Cheesecan
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by Cheesecan » 09 Jul 2013, 22:47

luckywaldo7 wrote:They did not mention that you would not be able to play Diablo 3 after buying it, due to their servers not being up to the task of handling everyone trying to play the single-player game they bought.

Similar deal with SimCity.
Worked fine for me on the release date. Which continent are you on?

As for most sold, Xbox 360 had the lead for a long time. PS3 passed this year, quite late in the console cycle. Still the numbers are quite close, so seems more like a draw. Xbox games are cheaper to develop since it shares so much hardware with the PC. This is one of the reasons they went for more standard components in PS4.
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by Mr. Bob » 09 Jul 2013, 23:13

Cheesecan wrote:As for most sold, Xbox 360 had the lead for a long time. PS3 passed this year, quite late in the console cycle. Still the numbers are quite close, so seems more like a draw. Xbox games are cheaper to develop since it shares so much hardware with the PC. This is one of the reasons they went for more standard components in PS4.
I was referring to consoles as hardware not console components. The whole point was that hardware (console) sales don't particularly matter. There's generally marginal to no to sometimes even negative profits for consoles. Especially late in the console cycle, as software sales increase to the point where they can sell console units at a loss and expect to make it back up.

The only thing that really matters in terms of how well a console does is software sales. You want royalties from retail. Having massive money making machines like Halo or Uncharted for exclusives isn't designed to be a selling point for the console itself, its to get exclusive royalties that competitors don't. They make money on Halo itself, not the console its sold on. If anything, its backwards. The console itself is a selling point that allows for royalties.

Selling the actual console is not only a moot point because they essentially sell for no profit, but its also moot because its a one time ordeal. (People only need to buy it once, maybe twice if it breaks.) Over the life cycle of the console, people who own it spend upwards of thousands of dollars for software in first world countries. With retail at such a high price (mostly due to physical distribution) there's a lot more money being thrown around for actual games.

--

Its not so much a matter how cheap it is to develop for them (the difference is negligible) as much as its about porting to other consoles. Or, more importantly, porting to the console itself. But, the difference was far more negligible than people made it out to be.

The real issue is which markets you gain the upper hand in. When products like this effect culture in such a broad way, it turns the competition into a land grab. The objective is to turn your console into the standard "this is what a game machine is" term for the culture of that area. For instance, the term "Nintendo" (in the US) used to be synonymous with "games." If you wanted to play games, you played on the "Nintendo." This is because Nintendo had grabbed the area and held it. Recently, its been "Xbox." In other areas, though, its been "Playstation." You want your console to be the area's "default" console. So, it just depends on which areas you grab and how profitable they are. Currently, the most profitable is the US, but Sony did a great job grabbing other areas. Whoever gets the behemoth (in this case the US) is generally the one who does the best.

Now, obviously, for core gamer groups this is a non issue. But, consoles have a tendency to make a great deal of their profits from non-core groups.
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by smoth » 10 Jul 2013, 00:13

Mr. Bob wrote:But, this is more and more becoming a ridiculous gripe. We're rapidly moving towards a future where essentially everyone has a constant and reliable internet connection.
1)
lan parties were awesome, you know when all your friends are right there eating pizza and playing with you. Not the same as playing on skype

2)
what is the point of owning a gaming laptop. Go ahead spend the time I do traveling and tell me how readily available the internet is. The fact that diablo II didn't have offline and tl2 did is why I bought tl2 and played it on the ship when I was terribly bored.

3)
I don't know about YOUR isp but mine frequently has issues noting like playing a match, rocking it and having the net die and I get none of my xp(game: loadout)

4)
battleforge, my absolute favorite rts. When the servers go down, and that will happen someday, I will never be able to play the game again. The company no longer makes expansions for it so any community patches or mods(the best thing about pc gaming, asking vampire: bloodlines) are impossible because they have everything locked down to ensure you have to go online and buy your units.
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by Mr. Bob » 10 Jul 2013, 00:46

smoth wrote: 1)
lan parties were awesome, you know when all your friends are right there eating pizza and playing with you. Not the same as playing on skype
So was Bomberman. We progress, and we lose some aspects of what we had, but what we gain is arguably much better.

And, that experience isn't gone. If games are generally cheaper (which they would be with digital distribution) everyone in the group could just own the game and play in your house together or wherever you want. Online doesn't mean far away. You can still get together and do that.
smoth wrote: 2)
what is the point of owning a gaming laptop. Go ahead spend the time I do traveling and tell me how readily available the internet is. The fact that diablo II didn't have offline and tl2 did is why I bought tl2 and played it on the ship when I was terribly bored.
Yes, and what will we do about people who live in submarines? God forbid we prevent South American wilderness explorers from playing games.

While we're at it, all PC games should meet the minimum specs of 2000, as a good portion of people can't afford any better systems!

You're talking about an extremely rare circumstance that honestly shouldn't prevent something that has so many pros to it. There are obviously going to be people who are in some strange situation where they can't get internet all the time, but the vast majority of people who are capable of both owning game systems and buying a great deal of games have constant internet access.
smoth wrote: 3)
I don't know about YOUR isp but mine frequently has issues noting like playing a match, rocking it and having the net die and I get none of my xp(game: loadout)
Not only are you in the minority (among people who play lots and lots of games and buy lots and lots of games and produce lots and lots of money for people who make lots and lots of games) but even for those who have those problems, that rarely is something that is constantly happening. If it is, I'm not sure where you live, but you may want to upgrade. I live in middle America and I've never once had my internet cut out. It did once when I lived elsewhere, but it was for 5 minutes.

Yes, there's always that guy in the comments of whatever video or stream or what-have-you, who is saying something to the effect of, "I live in Africa and I play lots of games but my internet is shit." As if that somehow invalidates the whole ordeal. People like that simply don't represent enough consumers. Business will, sooner or later, move to the money makers, and most of the money makers are people who have the money to live in a place that has good internet, and also who own it themselves.

Plus, as I said in my first post, the demand comes first. If you can generate demand for infrastructure, providers will create it.
smoth wrote: 4)
battleforge, my absolute favorite rts. When the servers go down, and that will happen someday, I will never be able to play the game again. The company no longer makes expansions for it so any community patches or mods(the best thing about pc gaming, asking vampire: bloodlines) are impossible because they have everything locked down to ensure you have to go online and buy your units.
This is a much more understandable issue.

So, there's two parts to my response of this.

1. While that does suck, if a game is good, people generally play it. And, as long as people are playing something, that game can potentially (through whatever business model they introduce) remain supported. So, the only people who are affected are the people who like a lot of games that no one else does. Which still sucks.

2. There's no reason a game couldn't be released in a free/non-DRM form at the end of its cycle, provided there's enough demand. Digital distribution allows for this because it doesn't cost anything to distribute. Still legitimately sucks though.

But, for as much as that sucks, it doesn't come close to the pros that a fully digital market would have. You can't expect everything to halt in that direction just because a game or two that you love at some point may not be available anymore, just as much as you can't expect it all to halt because you and a few other people are in a situation that prevents you from gaming online.
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luckywaldo7
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by luckywaldo7 » 10 Jul 2013, 01:27

Everything works perfectly for me; therefore, it works perfectly for everyone.

Error 37. Does not compute.
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by smoth » 10 Jul 2013, 01:36

Mr. Bob wrote:So was Bomberman. We progress, and we lose some aspects of what we had, but what we gain is arguably much better.

And, that experience isn't gone. If games are generally cheaper (which they would be with digital distribution) everyone in the group could just own the game and play in your house together or wherever you want. Online doesn't mean far away. You can still get together and do that.
boberman is a speciific game, I cannot speak to it. As far as onling helping.. nope because the internet gets choked out, dunno about how many people in your lans but we can go from 5-20+. The occasional lan is one of the ways myself and other allums used to use to get together.
Mr. Bob wrote: Yes, and what will we do about people who live in submarines? God forbid we prevent South American wilderness explorers from playing games.
I know people in the military. The online requirement was a huge concern for them.
Mr. Bob wrote:While we're at it, all PC games should meet the minimum specs of 2000, as a good portion of people can't afford any better systems!
No. 13 year old.. bob no.
Mr. Bob wrote:You're talking about an extremely rare circumstance that honestly shouldn't prevent something that has so many pros to it. There are obviously going to be people who are in some strange situation where they can't get internet all the time, but the vast majority of people who are capable of both owning game systems and buying a great deal of games have constant internet access. !

Not only are you in the minority (among people who play lots and lots of games and buy lots and lots of games and produce lots and lots of money for people who make lots and lots of games) but even for those who have those problems, that rarely is something that is constantly happening. If it is, I'm not sure where you live, but you may want to upgrade. I live in middle America and I've never once had my internet cut out. It did once when I lived elsewhere, but it was for 5 minutes.

Yes, there's always that guy in the comments of whatever video or stream or what-have-you, who is saying something to the effect of, "I live in Africa and I play lots of games but my internet is shit." As if that somehow invalidates the whole ordeal. People like that simply don't represent enough consumers. Business will, sooner or later, move to the money makers, and most of the money makers are people who have the money to live in a place that has good internet, and also who own it themselves.
extremely rare? not in louisiana. Extremely rare? do you know how many frequent flier miles consultants have? I mean dude, weeks in hotels and don't tell me they all have reliable enough wifi. I just traveled much of the southeast us and the wifi was not reliable aways. These were not cheap hotels. of course arguably as a consultant I should not have games on my laptop. I always have my secondary laptop for gaming and spring stuff.
Mr. Bob wrote:Plus, as I said in my first post, the demand comes first. If you can generate demand for infrastructure, providers will create it.
not really as of recently the numbers required for them to care is HUGE because >9001 kiddies are out there and the number is greatly inflated.

sorry not quoting past here, I don't like how it bloats my post.

1) battleforge is dying a very very slow death because of this. People do still play it but the lack of continuation of the story has caused a lot of people to terribly lose interest. they do a few things like free in game money to keep people logging in but the stale content has caused a lot of people to lose a great deal of interest.

2) there is, when the time requires = money and there is no money because they stopped adding content to generate real revenue. so the server running slowly eats funds needed to open the game up. The producer EA may and likely would ristrict it as corporate policy is often to drive shit into the ground draining all profit.

3) a fully digital market is alright when they don't shake your hand while punching your dong. The whole "ease" of access excuse goes out the window with the online requirement.



want to tell me about why it doesn't suck. Come live here for hurricane season. Where we lose power for weeks and sometimes internet for months :|. Maybe where you live you have reliable internet, mine goes out nearly 1times or more a month. Sometimes taking 5-6 hours to come back on.
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by Mr. Bob » 10 Jul 2013, 03:13

smoth wrote:boberman is a speciific game...


See below.
smoth wrote:I know people in the military. The online requirement was a huge concern for them.


Yes, and I know a great deal of people in portions of Africa and southern Asia who despise the idea as they're almost never if not never at all online. But, that's too small of an audience to justify it for everyone else. Its ludicrous to expect it to all wait for the people who can't get online enough when those people are not a big enough marketplace. People in the military aren't buying tons and tons of games. People on the east and west coasts of the US are. Those people tend to have constant and reliable internet.

It isn't going to wait on your situation, unless that situation applies to everyone who buys a lot of games, which it doesn't.
smoth wrote:extremely rare?...


See above.
smoth wrote:not really as of recently the numbers required for them to care is HUGE because >9001 kiddies are out there and the number is greatly inflated.


I'm not even sure what you're saying. Internet has gotten dramatically better.
smoth wrote:1) battleforge is dying a very very slow death because of this. People do still play it but the lack of continuation of the story has caused a lot of people to terribly lose interest. they do a few things like free in game money to keep people logging in but the stale content has caused a lot of people to lose a great deal of interest.


And that sucks, but nothing is going to halt because of that, and its honestly sort of ridiculous to use your love for one game as a reason for a halting of this sort of progress when people play a much much wider variety of games now.
smoth wrote:2) there is, when the time requires = money and there is no money because they stopped adding content to generate real revenue. so the server running slowly eats funds needed to open the game up. The producer EA may and likely would ristrict it as corporate policy is often to drive shit into the ground draining all profit.


Right, and that's an issue with all MMOs. Its the nature of their design. If the game is simply needing to be online to check in, they could potentially release a non DRM version later digitally as vaperware (for loyalty purposes) or for a small fee.

This isn't an issue for most (note most) people, because we live in an age where people play much more games because there's a much larger variety.

(But, the much better solution is as seen in my response below.)
smoth wrote:3) a fully digital market is alright when they don't shake your hand while punching your dong. The whole "ease" of access excuse goes out the window with the online requirement.


Examples? I don't see Steam punching my dong. And, it is easy. Much easier. I don't have to go to a store or wait for it to be shipped to me. The online requirement doesn't throw that out of the window.

The main reason its better is because it allows games to be cheaper. Distribution costs a lot of money, and at some point, they'll stop being distributed (similar to your issue of the game not being digitally supported with servers and whatnot.) But, even that issue is solved with platforms. (Like Steam.) If the game was tethered to a platform like Steam, the game would have support as long as Steam exists, because it could potentially run through their servers for DRM purposes, and sometimes even be supported ingame.
smoth wrote:want to tell me about why it doesn't suck. Come live here for hurricane season. Where we lose power for weeks and sometimes internet for months :|. Maybe where you live you have reliable internet, mine goes out nearly 1times or more a month. Sometimes taking 5-6 hours to come back on.


Sorry to hear that. But, like I said, there aren't enough of you who buy a lot of games and are also in your situation. So, companies don't really have to give a shit.

Plus, this is why things like Offline Mode exist. If you've already logged in, you should be good to go to play games offline during the times your net is down.
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by smoth » 10 Jul 2013, 03:16

try the entire gulf coast. That is part of why tech is so weak down here. People would rather gent drunk than fire up the xbox off the generator.
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by smoth » 10 Jul 2013, 03:49

Mr. Bob wrote:
smoth wrote:not really as of recently the numbers required for them to care is HUGE because >9001 kiddies are out there and the number is greatly inflated.

I'm not even sure what you're saying. Internet has gotten dramatically better.
sorry about being unclear here: I mean because most o the kids these days don't have memories of arcades bringing gaming to a social experiece. In general when you are all in person people behave themselves a lot better or eventually some older kid kicks their ass.
Mr. Bob wrote: Examples? I don't see Steam punching my dong. And, it is easy. Much easier. I don't have to go to a store or wait for it to be shipped to me. The online requirement doesn't throw that out of the window.
as far as punching me in the dong goes? my most recent bullshit with steam was To me the title Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon. The game says "requires a Uplay account" I am ok with that, tons of games have loggins these days and honestly, I am annoyed by it but many of them have good reasons. Uplay was/is required, which means I had to have 2 steam-like clients running at 1 time. Meaning I had 2 sets of overlays spraying all over my screen. It drives me freaking nuts. On top of that crap I was running yet another piece of crap in the background. I didn't want that, it was not specified, too bad. Enjoy now having to not only remember yet another password but also having 2 sets of overlays. Now, I probably could devote some o my time to looking up how to disable thier overlay. That wasn't all. EVERY time I run the game I have to sit and wait for uplay to load, login and then run the game! Why should I have to do any of that? so I have to load steam to load uplay to login to play my game? WOW. That really pissed me off and I felt crossed the line.

when I posted about it people argued that "well it did say I required a uplay account" and defended steam's lack of disclosure. WTF. I think as far as outside of these sort of things steam is one of the better DRM managements esp with their recent greenlight support.

Now as far as matters, it does because growing up, every weekend I was dragged out to grand isle. I was not the only kid. People in louisiana growing up are often dragged out to the middle of nowhere for enrichment(for lack of a better term). We often may have an old artari or tv there. When laptops became affordable and I had my first one I was playing games at night on it or playing super nintendo(which I packed with me before I got a laptop). Nowadays the kids need the internet to play their games. I don't like that. I don't like the internet but that is a separate discussion.

I can promise you in grand isle they MAY have internet(grand isle is a big area for fishiing) but it'll be terrible and the various other places like Venice LA or other places will not even have it. Although venice may because BP has a large facility. So you have an entire state whose culture excludes them from the online only model. I mean yeah, it is cool and all to have internet always on(outside of my wierd hatred of it) but I still don't see it everywhere. Last trip, which was like a month ago hotel internet was spoty at best and terribly limited.
Mr. Bob wrote:The main reason its better is because it allows games to be cheaper. Distribution costs a lot of money, and at some point, they'll stop being distributed (similar to your issue of the game not being digitally supported with servers and whatnot.) But, even that issue is solved with platforms. (Like Steam.) If the game was tethered to a platform like Steam, the game would have support as long as Steam exists, because it could potentially run through their servers for DRM purposes, and sometimes even be supported ingame.
cheaper at a price. Back before gamestop efffectively fucked over the undistry with their by back bullshit. EB Games, Babages, Sam goody etc were around selling games and movies. Now I blame best buy for same goody but I remember when gamestop bought out babages. These stores were huge to me as a kid. When I went to buy my game, and that was a big deal for a kid who had to rake leaves, mow lawns do random oddjobs around the neighborhood for money. I went into these places and saw all these awesome things. Action figures from comics I never heard of. Armored core figures I remember but one day, this one shop had these model kits. Having been a huge fan of aircraft models, they had a model that could turn into an aircraft and a big white and orange one that had this big minigun... and thus I discovered gundam at 16.

as far as steam and games being available I remember a while back a huge hullabullo about how steam can and may some day just pull the old game off the server. I don't really care 1 way or the other but that was something they made sure to communicate. I think Itunes did so as well. non-sequitor-ish I know but I wanted to bring that up.
Mr. Bob wrote:
smoth wrote:want to tell me about why it doesn't suck. Come live here for hurricane season. Where we lose power for weeks and sometimes internet for months :|. Maybe where you live you have reliable internet, mine goes out nearly 1times or more a month. Sometimes taking 5-6 hours to come back on.


Sorry to hear that. But, like I said, there aren't enough of you who buy a lot of games and are also in your situation. So, companies don't really have to give a shit.

Plus, this is why things like Offline Mode exist. If you've already logged in, you should be good to go to play games offline during the times your net is down.
not ones that require the online always or 24 hour online drm. Every southern I knew all the way to florida was pissed about it. Now if you think the southern sea border is not a lot of people.. or the east coast(who just recently learned a bit about how long we go without power) doesn't matter. bob come on!
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by Mr. Bob » 10 Jul 2013, 05:48

smoth wrote:sorry about being unclear here: I mean because most o the kids these days don't have memories of arcades bringing gaming to a social experiece. In general when you are all in person people behave themselves a lot better or eventually some older kid kicks their ass.
So, essentially, you're arguing for non-online multiplayer? I don't see how this is relevant.. Your nostalgia for the past and your generalizations about "the kids these days" isn't really something I'd pull into play here..
smoth wrote:as far as punching me in the dong goes? my most recent bullshit with steam was To me the title Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon. The game says "requires a Uplay account" I am ok with that, tons of games have loggins these days and honestly, I am annoyed by it but many of them have good reasons. Uplay was/is required, which means I had to have 2 steam-like clients running at 1 time. Meaning I had 2 sets of overlays spraying all over my screen. It drives me freaking nuts. On top of that crap I was running yet another piece of crap in the background. I didn't want that, it was not specified, too bad. Enjoy now having to not only remember yet another password but also having 2 sets of overlays. Now, I probably could devote some o my time to looking up how to disable thier overlay. That wasn't all. EVERY time I run the game I have to sit and wait for uplay to load, login and then run the game! Why should I have to do any of that? so I have to load steam to load uplay to login to play my game? WOW. That really pissed me off and I felt crossed the line.


So, you're angry that you have an additional overlay to play a game that hides your overlay? Or are you angry that you had to make an additional 2 clicks or so to get into the game? (The first time, of course, as all subsequent times it does it automatically.)
smoth wrote:when I posted about it people argued that "well it did say I required a uplay account" and defended steam's lack of disclosure. WTF. I think as far as outside of these sort of things steam is one of the better DRM managements esp with their recent greenlight support.


Image
smoth wrote:Now as far as matters, it does because growing up, every weekend I was dragged out to grand isle. I was not the only kid. People in louisiana growing up are often dragged out to the middle of nowhere for enrichment(for lack of a better term). We often may have an old artari or tv there. When laptops became affordable and I had my first one I was playing games at night on it or playing super nintendo(which I packed with me before I got a laptop). Nowadays the kids need the internet to play their games. I don't like that. I don't like the internet but that is a separate discussion.


Wat. I dun even.

I'm not sure how this is in any way relevant. The nostalgia card, that is. I'm sure people in their 60s miss the days when you had to send someone a letter instead of text/email them. And, I'm sure their grandparents miss the days when you had to churn your butter instead of buying it at the store.
smoth wrote:I can promise you in grand isle they MAY have internet(grand isle is a big area for fishiing) but it'll be terrible and the various other places like Venice LA or other places will not even have it. Although venice may because BP has a large facility. So you have an entire state whose culture excludes them from the online only model. I mean yeah, it is cool and all to have internet always on(outside of my wierd hatred of it) but I still don't see it everywhere. Last trip, which was like a month ago hotel internet was spoty at best and terribly limited.


Yes, there are a great deal of places that have absolutely no internet service. In fact, the majority of the people on the planet probably have no access whatsoever.

We aren't talking about the majority of the people on the planet though, we're talking about the majority of the people who play a lot of games and make a lot of money for the people who make a lot of games. These people tend to have reliable internet.
smoth wrote:cheaper at a price. Back before gamestop efffectively fucked over the undistry with their by back bullshit. EB Games, Babages, Sam goody etc were around selling games and movies. Now I blame best buy for same goody but I remember when gamestop bought out babages. These stores were huge to me as a kid. When I went to buy my game, and that was a big deal for a kid who had to rake leaves, mow lawns do random oddjobs around the neighborhood for money. I went into these places and saw all these awesome things. Action figures from comics I never heard of. Armored core figures I remember but one day, this one shop had these model kits. Having been a huge fan of aircraft models, they had a model that could turn into an aircraft and a big white and orange one that had this big minigun... and thus I discovered gundam at 16.
How is this in any way relevant? You said "cheaper at a price" and then continued to mention a mix of nostalgia and business history.
smoth wrote:as far as steam and games being available I remember a while back a huge hullabullo about how steam can and may some day just pull the old game off the server. I don't really care 1 way or the other but that was something they made sure to communicate. I think Itunes did so as well. non-sequitor-ish I know but I wanted to bring that up.
When has this ever happened? Competition would effectively solve this issue. The only time that would be a problem would be in the case of a monopoly.

This was sort of the whole point of that part of the post. Physical distribution only maintains games if they are relevant. (In terms of getting a hold of that game. Obviously, if you already own it, you're fine.) If anything, digital distribution essentially archives them forever, because distribution is free.
smoth wrote:not ones that require the online always or 24 hour online drm. Every southern I knew all the way to florida was pissed about it. Now if you think the southern sea border is not a lot of people.. or the east coast(who just recently learned a bit about how long we go without power) doesn't matter. bob come on!
What 24 hour online DRM games are you referring to on Steam? MMOs? That's a design choice for MMOs.. It'd be sort of difficult to play a game where the majority of the content is stored online to allow for massive online play without that content...that is stored online..

As for the Florida reference, refer to my earlier statements. I'm not referring to the majority of people. I'm referring to the majority of people who buy a lot of video games. Not everything is going to wait on that.

MAY I REFER YOU TO THIS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1U3MyX0pmE
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smoth
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by smoth » 10 Jul 2013, 08:09

smoth wrote:sorry about being unclear here: I mean because most o the kids these days don't have memories of arcades bringing gaming to a social experiece. In general when you are all in person people behave themselves a lot better or eventually some older kid kicks their ass.
I am saying that the further isolated people are the more social degeneration exists.
Mr. Bob wrote:So, essentially, you're arguing for non-online multiplayer? I don't see how this is relevant..
google diablo 3 no lan play and google about how people chose torchlight 2 over diablo 3 for the offline. It matters to a lot of people. yes I am saying that lan play is important.
Mr. Bob wrote:Your nostalgia for the past and your generalizations about "the kids these days" isn't really something I'd pull into play here..
but you did. for the sake of argument I'll cite the greater internet fuckwad theory with regards to kids. because I remember watching them getting their asses kicked in the arcades back in the day.

I remember the last time I played call of duty online. some kid came in and immediately blurted out with "I like to fuck girls in the pussy and ass." back in the day that kid would have never heard the end of it in the local arcade. but because he was online eventually I just had to mute his little ass. I think their social interactions having no consequence just some old guy online muting them is a bad thing for society.

smoth wrote:The game says "requires a Uplay account" I am ok with that, tons of games have loggins these days and honestly, I am annoyed by it but many of them have good reasons. Uplay was/is required, which means I had to have 2 steam-like clients running at 1 time. Meaning I had 2 sets of overlays spraying all over my screen. It drives me freaking nuts. On top of that crap I was running yet another piece of crap in the background. I didn't want that, it was not specified, too bad. Enjoy now having to not only remember yet another password but also having 2 sets of overlays. Now, I probably could devote some o my time to looking up how to disable thier overlay. That wasn't all. EVERY time I run the game I have to sit and wait for uplay to load, login and then run the game! Why should I have to do any of that? so I have to load steam to load uplay to login to play my game? WOW. That really pissed me off and I felt crossed the line.

was what upset me about it, had i know it would require me to RUN and install uplay I would have passed on it.
Mr. Bob wrote:So, you're angry that you have an additional overlay to play a game that hides your overlay? Or are you angry that you had to make an additional 2 clicks or so to get into the game? (The first time, of course, as all subsequent times it does it automatically.)
it still loads every time for me. I have to start up their app(what happen when I click the icon) and then run it.
smoth wrote:when I posted about it people argued that "well it did say I required a uplay account" and defended steam's lack of disclosure. WTF. I think as far as outside of these sort of things steam is one of the better DRM managements esp with their recent greenlight support.


http://i.imgur.com/AYNvQc3.png
your point is? I detailed the requirements, this image is seemingly mean spirited and condescending, I detailed the exact text you highlighted earlier in the post.
smoth wrote:I'm not sure how this is in any way relevant. The nostalgia card, that is. I'm sure people in their 60s miss the days when you had to send someone a letter instead of text/email them. And, I'm sure their grandparents miss the days when you had to churn your butter instead of buying it at the store.
That is a misdirection, I cannot remember the fallacy and won't look it up.

Mr. Bob wrote:Yes, there are a great deal of places that have absolutely no internet service. In fact, the majority of the people on the planet probably have no access whatsoever.

We aren't talking about the majority of the people on the planet though, we're talking about the majority of the people who play a lot of games and make a lot of money for the people who make a lot of games. These people tend to have reliable internet.

I am talking about the state of louisiana's major cities, new orleans and baton rouge. I don't know about where you live or other people I can only speak to my experience living in this fetid swamp.
Mr. Bob wrote:How is this in any way relevant? You said "cheaper at a price" and then continued to mention a mix of nostalgia and business history.
The digital download takes away the physical location. The physical location has often times tangible objects. Sometimes thing you never expected unliked say the hone world of online sales. Like If I pull up amazon it'll have tons of suggestions based on prior orders. That is great but it also excludes a whole world o things that I might like. I don't know the thing I went to the store to but when I saw my first gundam model kit. Heck at the time I was fairly racist towards the japanese if I were to be brutal on myself. It was probably a medevil fantasy game. Yet because I went there and some employee had the idea that these kits were really cool and made the effort to convince a manager to put them on the shelf. MY LIFE was changed. The old shops were a wonderful place back in the day. Now, with digital markets, all these specialized products are shoved in my face on the steam page. the fact that they added the indies via the greenlight thing means that sometimes they might have those cool titles(don't starve was one of them) that I would have never found. but none of the cool figures. no movies, or comics JUST specifically video games and mostly the ones they want you to know about. but greenlight changed that part at least giving the litttle guy a shot. Does that explian it? if you still don't understand I'll give up but I wanted to give the concept I am trying to express another shot.
Mr. Bob wrote:When has this ever happened? Competition would effectively solve this issue. The only time that would be a problem would be in the case of a monopoly.
dunno. It was a while back I want to say. Maybe I am wrong, maybe it was a prank site. I didn't really care, like I said.
Mr. Bob wrote: What 24 hour online DRM games are you referring to on Steam? MMOs? That's a design choice for MMOs.. It'd be sort of difficult to play a game where the majority of the content is stored online to allow for massive online play without that content...that is stored online..
that was one of the issues people had with the xbox1. The requirement of login every 24 hours.
Mr. Bob wrote:As for the Florida reference, refer to my earlier statements. I'm not referring to the majority of people. I'm referring to the majority of people who buy a lot of video games. Not everything is going to wait on that.
florida, alabama, parts of georgia, misssippi, louisiana, parts of texas.
Mr. Bob wrote:MAY I REFER YOU TO THIS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1U3MyX0pmE
I don't understand the reference because I never watched the film. Being that we are on youtube links and you posting pictures with things circled in what I can only guess is sarcasm/irritation. Lets stop, I don't like what is happening, you apparently do not and all that will happen is escalation. I would rather stay on good terms with you but as we do feel too passionately with respect ours view. so I hope this post helps clarify it and we can both move on because all we are doing is bashing out heads into respective walls.
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by klapmongool » 10 Jul 2013, 08:24

Hmm.

Regarding single player games with online requirement... You should be able to play games you bought 5, 10, 15 or 20 years after you first did. I know I did with games like civilization, colonization, master of magic, dungeon master II, etc etc.

Bob's reasoning on this point is weird, to say the least. If the software company doesn't think it is profitable to support the always online DRM anymore, people (no matter what number) should not have to right to play the games they own anymore?
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by Mr. Bob » 10 Jul 2013, 08:44

smoth wrote:I don't understand the reference because I never watched the film. Being that we are on youtube links and you posting pictures with things circled in what I can only guess is sarcasm/irritation. Lets stop, I don't like what is happening, you apparently do not and all that will happen is escalation. I would rather stay on good terms with you but as we do feel too passionately with respect ours view. so I hope this post helps clarify it and we can both move on because all we are doing is bashing out heads into respective walls.
Sure, we can stop.

Just to clear up what just happened, I certainly didn't mean to come off as a dick. I was just super confused after the post. I'm assuming now that you were typing it on a phone or something, but at the time it just seemed really random how everything (spelling, grammar, coherency) dropped to the point where I thought it was a satire or something in response to me making giant posts, and I was having a hard time understanding what you were saying. You've always seemed like a fairly reasonable person, just based on the posts I've seen. Ironically, I sort of assumed you were being satirical/sarcastic after, "No. 13 year old.. bob no."
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by Mr. Bob » 10 Jul 2013, 08:47

klapmongool wrote:Hmm.

Regarding single player games with online requirement... You should be able to play games you bought 5, 10, 15 or 20 years after you first did. I know I did with games like civilization, colonization, master of magic, dungeon master II, etc etc.

Bob's reasoning on this point is weird, to say the least. If the software company doesn't think it is profitable to support the always online DRM anymore, people (no matter what number) should not have to right to play the games they own anymore?
You don't own them though. You're licensing them. It may not seem like a very good bargain, but its what you agree to every time you install the game. You own the disc, but that's just an arbitrary vessel for software that they legally control.
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Re: New Console Generation

Post by klapmongool » 10 Jul 2013, 13:50

Mr. Bob wrote:
klapmongool wrote:Hmm.

Regarding single player games with online requirement... You should be able to play games you bought 5, 10, 15 or 20 years after you first did. I know I did with games like civilization, colonization, master of magic, dungeon master II, etc etc.

Bob's reasoning on this point is weird, to say the least. If the software company doesn't think it is profitable to support the always online DRM anymore, people (no matter what number) should not have to right to play the games they own anymore?
You don't own them though. You're licensing them. It may not seem like a very good bargain, but its what you agree to every time you install the game. You own the disc, but that's just an arbitrary vessel for software that they legally control.
Different countries have different laws though. In the Netherlands your reasoning isn't accepted by default and consumers are pretty well protected from shit like EULAs. Although that doesn't really matter anymore if the software company made the game with always-online-DRM and decides to stop the servers.

So what will this lead to (in the Netherlands)? Probably to laws that better defend consumers from shit behaviour like this and/or continuing piracy.
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