Choosing start positions in BA

[HosenJack]

Holá..

I'm not sure what kind of system, but i think fastest CPU gets best spot is pretty unfair for people who don't want to spend much money into their computer.

It's like you go into a restaurant and the guy who offers most $ for a pizza gets a warm pizza, the others get a half-cold.

Also, some people can bring more efficiency to the team if they can play on their favorite spot, or are even lazy / pissed because faster people ALWAYS take their favorite spot and won't move.

Don't you think we need a fairer solution ? Some more democracy in start position choosing, that's not related to money ?

I'm open for ideas.

[smoth]

I'm open for ideas.

but you are not the one running the show or the one coding a solution.

You must have an abysmally slow cpu if this is a real issue for you.

Welcome to spring. I am sure if you offer a solution rather than assume you have the right to demand work, your request will go futher. This community generally is revolted by idea guys and loves workers.

[Google_Frog]

I assume this is an issue because the way games start is that each player selects a spot and clicks ready as soon as they load. I can think of no other reason for this thread to exist in the first place. Any solution to this would just be a bandaid over the core problem of the people in your games being awful team players.

[HosenJack]

Hey google im sorry i did never learn to work coding and i dont want to critize the current system but my idea is to evolve to something fairer, and i would be really grateful if someone takes the time to code that..


Most simple example for a solution:

Double-ready.

Load > Press ready for startspot > All ready? > Choose start spots > All ready? > Start.

Another solution would be, that you can't start on the same start spot for 2 games in row. Some people with the very fast CPU play at their favorite ( best spot for anyone ) over 20 games in row. Not fair

Or something like that

Any better ideas?

[smoth]

Hey google im sorry i did never learn to work coding

Then, learn.

This community generally is revolted by idea guys and loves workers.

Any better ideas?

[knorke]

Problem is if a player has already readied up, they can not move anymore even he wants. So maybe just needs an unready button?

I can not think of a system that offers a solution if two players can not decide via chat who goes where.

Load > Press ready for startspot > All ready? > Choose start spots > All ready? > Start.

Could still happen that two players absolutely both want the same startpos and none is willing to move...no idea how that would be solved.

[very_bad_soldier]

Adding another step you have to take before starting the game is a very bad idea imo. We already have too much of them. I think I would prefer when people would be able to just choose their start positions already in the lobby.

PS.
I think its perfectly fine for players to come to the forums and tell about their ideas they have. I cant see whats wrong about that.

[Jools]

The problem posed by the OP is not one that's related to Lua code, it's one that's related to inter-player communication. You're on the same team for heaven's sake. Talk to each other.

And yes, don't ready up until you have agreed what to do and where to start. Maybe the solution would indeed be an unready button.

[Jools]

Could still happen that two players absolutely both want the same startpos and none is willing to move...no idea how that would be solved.

Well, it's not solved by code.

[smoth]

And yes, don't ready up until you have agreed what to do and where to start. Maybe the solution would indeed be an unready button.

can we do such a button? or will we have to essentially create an in-between to control it?

[Jools]

A lot can be done using the new GameSetup callin, but it can not override player's ready state. It needs engine change.

Code: Select all

GameSetup() --> string "state", boolean "ready", table "playerStates"

return success, newReady 

parameters:

string state will return the game state as per the engine, i.e. "waiting for players", "starting in 3 seconds" etc.

boolean ready: I think this returns true if current player is ready and otherwise false.

table playerstates: returns a table with the state of respective player

the return values:

success:(have to check what this means)

newready: return true if you want to hide the default ready button, false otherwise.

[zwzsg]

Here's my solution:

Shuffle the start position randomly between the members of the same allyteam.

Attached is an implementation as a mutator for ba-v7.76.sdz

[dansan]

It's seldom a good idea to look for technical solutions for a social problem.

Just teach everyone to place, but not click ready until everyone in your allyteam has placed. I do it that way, and did not have any negative experience because of it _ever_.

[albator]

I disagree with start pos to be chosen in lobby. Point of the beginning of the game is to make fancy tactic like shared factory or compsuh with metal sharing to other...

choosing start pos is almost never an issue, player are usually smart enough to follow advice, or quite bendable, exception are player wanted to teck single player style and not caring about team game at all, those are usually kick ban and stop trolling after a few games.

[Johannes]

Well, an "Unready" button would be nice. But if this is a real issue it's about peoples attitudes that'd need changing, instead of the tech.

[Jools]

It's seldom a good idea to look for technical solutions for a social problem.

Very well formulated.

[Silentwings]

It would be possible to add this as a modoption, in some form, without needing engine changes or additional starting stages. We've actually thought about this before but it's not completely clear to me how to do it. Some things you might have opinions on:

1) How to choose the startspots? (maps often don't have enough or can be badly made with startspots in dumb places).

BA has a algo built in that tries to place sensible startspots for afk players nearby the highest concentration of 'free' metal spots. But when the map has no metal spots and/or bad/absent startspots it's not so easy. And what if there are no startboxes and/or lua'ed metal spots, diminishing returns, overlapping startboxes, coops with allyteams, etc?

There is an attempt (I don't know how far its progressed) to implement something similar to this inside the engine for ffa games - that's a much simpler case to handle. Zwzsg's solution is not a bad one imo, but it doesn't solve all the problems.

2) BA already has an (quite effective, imo) modoption to stop players arguing over startspots; roughly speaking, once a player has placed others can't place nearby.

Any solution to this would just be a bandaid over the core problem of the people in your games being awful team players.

Imo this is nonsense - the issue here is that different strategies can be carried out from different startspots and most ppl like to vary how they play.

I think its perfectly fine for players to come to the forums and tell about their ideas they have.

Completely agree. But as smoth says, don't expect others will magically appear and code your ideas, or even agree with them. Although I do read them all

[AntiAllez]

and what is the result of all these?? laggy players on tech spot!

[klapmongool]

Play other maps than just DSD. That way people have to think before placing.