liche (split from BA7.75 thread)

[flopWONTLETMELOGIN]

"-Fixed liche (!!)" in 7.73 changelog.. what does this mean? does it 1 shot comm if u do it right? :D

[Silentwings]

-Fixed liche (!!)" in 7.73 changelog.. what does this mean?

It means that liche now locks target correctly and its missile flies at the intended angle.

does it 1 shot comm

It used to do this because of the way (very) old engine versions handled impulse and fall damage, I doubt it will now.

edit: read changelogs - it was removed intentionally

[Johannes]

-Fixed liche (!!)" in 7.73 changelog.. what does this mean?

It means that liche now locks target correctly and its missile flies at the intended angle.

does it 1 shot comm

It used to do this because of the way (very) old engine versions handled impulse and fall damage, I doubt it will now.

Well can you make it work like it should then, if it's borked now? Ie. 1-shot comm with impulse

[Silentwings]

Well can you make it work like it should then.

No.

It used to do this because of the way (very) old engine versions handled impulse and fall damage.

I think there was some (noww abandoned) effort in the past to do it but I wasn't involved & its not something I'm personally interested in working on. Persuade other devs or do it yourself and submit a push request to engine/post patch on forum somewhere and we'll be happy to look at it. Btw, "should" is not your call.

[klapmongool]

Also the liche was a bit overpowered one-shotting a comm.

[Johannes]

Btw, "should" is not your call.

Of course if something is widely used, acknowledged, and unchanged for years, of course I will assume that it is the way it indeed should be working.
Or engine devs define how BA units "should" be nowadays?

The technical difficulty of changing it I understand, but that part of your comment was ridiculous.

[Silentwings]

Of course if something is widely used, acknowledged, and unchanged for years, of course I will assume that it is the way it indeed should be working.

For a game thats part of a project which is permanently in development, no, that's not the right way to view things. If you bought something from a shop and then soon after it wasn't fit for purpose, "should" is the word.

Within spring, good/wanted features get maintained when people have time and inclination do it, but "should" is a barely well-defined combination of the intentions of the people who contribute to the project, be they engine devs, game devs, lobby devs, moderators or just people we borrowed code/ideas off of.

[Johannes]

Of course if something is widely used, acknowledged, and unchanged for years, of course I will assume that it is the way it indeed should be working.

For a game thats part of a project which is permanently in development, no, that's not the right way to view things. If you bought something from a shop and then soon after it wasn't fit for purpose, "should" is the word.

Within spring, good/wanted features get maintained when people have time and inclination do it, but "should" is a barely well-defined combination of the intentions of the people who contribute to the project, be they engine devs, game devs, lobby devs, moderators or just people we borrowed code/ideas off of.

Nah. It wasn't about how I personally think things should work. Just that if a gameplay feature gets drastically altered by something that's noti included in the BA changelog, then of course it looks like a bug that ought to be fixed, BA devs have always known about how Liche works vs Com and it never was changed, I also remember talking with TFC on whether it should be.

I understand that you're not personally interested in working out how to change it back, it's your free time that you'll use however you please, but what you should do is say what you think about it. You think anyone will use their time to work out a fix for the Liche when you won't even comment whether you'd include it in BA?


It's the job of the active main developer to define how BA Should Be. It's not the job of moderators, idea contributors (which would actually inciude me) or lobby devs, it's not my job, it's now your call.
But regardless of that it's ridiculous to try somehow put me back in my place when I make the assumption that Liche should work like it used t, when you took no clear stance beyond stating the technical details.

[Silentwings]

Liche one shotting com stopped happening long before I even became involved with developing BA. We have never included engine changes on the BA changelogs and will continue not too.

I will decide what my role is.

I thought I had made my position clear, but if not: If someone offers a non-hacky patch that makes liche one-shot com without disturbing the rest of BA, then I'm personally happy to include it. I don't have a strong feeling either way and if any other devs objected to it then I wouldn't include it.

Btw, I had a read of the changelog and discovered in 7.19 -> 7.20: " Arm Liche bomb no longer instantly kills commanders with impulse."

[klapmongool]

I might be wrong about this but I think the problem was that due to an engine change the impulse increased by a lot. Thus it became possible to launch commanders up to the entire map away. You could aim in such a way that the commander would take out the enemy base and itself.

This was introduced behavior. I don´t remember whether 1 shot comm kills was possible before that engine change.

The real question is whether one-shotting is a good thing.. Not sure about that.

[Johannes]

I thought I had made my position clear, but if not: If someone offers a non-hacky patch that makes liche one-shot com without disturbing the rest of BA, then I'm personally happy to include it.

Alright, now it's clear to me too.

Btw, I had a read of the changelog and discovered in 7.19 -> 7.20: " Arm Liche bomb no longer instantly kills commanders with impulse."

Yep, then it was discussed more and reverted back, I faintly remember that too.

[knorke]

If someone offers a non-hacky patch that makes liche one-shot com without disturbing the rest of BA, then I'm personally happy to include it.

BA has commanders in their own armor category, so could just increase damages towards this category?
dont know which file licho's weapon is in, so example numbers:

Code: Select all

damage = {
 default = 2000,
 commanders = 3500,
},

of course that is a bit different from the impulse behaviour...

[Johannes]

If someone offers a non-hacky patch that makes liche one-shot com without disturbing the rest of BA, then I'm personally happy to include it.

BA has commanders in their own armor category, so could just increase damages towards this category?
dont know which file licho's weapon is in, so example numbers:

Code: Select all

damage = {
 default = 2000,
 commanders = 3500,
},

of course that is a bit different from the impulse behaviour...

Alas just upping the damage doesn't quite capture what was fun about old Liches, it's that you had to forcefire right next to where the comm will be in a few seconds, just making a normal attack on target is bland by comparison.

[Silentwings]

Yep, then it was discussed more and reverted back, I faintly remember that too.

There is no reverting back listed on the changelog - I think you may be remembering wrongly here. edit: seem changelog was not explicit but it was reverted

BA has commanders in their own armor category, so could just increase damages towards this category?

The point is, before it was removed, you had to do something special to do with where you landed the missile to kill the com in one shot. My memory is: if you hit the com directly then it wouldn't die, but if you hit the ground nearby at precisely the right distance then the impulse would cause the commander to fly off the ground and die from a combination of the fall damage and missile damage.

dont know which file licho's weapon is in,

lichE! Pronounced

[Johannes]

Yep, then it was discussed more and reverted back, I faintly remember that too.

There is no reverting back listed on the changelog - I think you may be remembering wrongly here.

http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... =0#p467726



http://springfiles.com/spring/games/bal ... ilation-21
"- Fixed liche impulse on commanders"

[Silentwings]

Yes, it seems you are correct - "Fixed liche impulse on commanders" is an odd thing to write in changelog when according the forum post what tfc meant was "This is a bug that I fixed but instead I'm going to revert that fix and turn it into a feature"