AI Factory

[Anarchid]

Also I did even ask how I could help fixing the bug, and all I received was no response until I probed it again and got told "Do it yourself is the best option"

In my experience, to receive pointers about how to hack the engine, you need to go to #sy and harrass jK until he responds by calling your questions "blabla". Then you reformulate them as valid queries and receive illuminating insights.

[gajop]

Also I did even ask how I could help fixing the bug, and all I received was no response until I probed it again and got told "Do it yourself is the best option"

And by that you mean how you could have other people fix it for you!
Look, if you ever wanted to actually do it, I could point out what needs to be looked at (and still can if you actually mean it), but you never did.

DYI is the best option. We are all aware of that bug (I was 3 years ago since I mantised it). If no one else does it, I'll fix it when I have the time, otherwise just sit back and wait...

[Petah]

Also I did even ask how I could help fixing the bug, and all I received was no response until I probed it again and got told "Do it yourself is the best option"

And by that you mean how you could have other people fix it for you!
Look, if you ever wanted to actually do it, I could point out what needs to be looked at (and still can if you actually mean it), but you never did.

DYI is the best option. We are all aware of that bug (I was 3 years ago since I mantised it). If no one else does it, I'll fix it when I have the time, otherwise just sit back and wait...

Give me some pointers right now, and I will get the latest spring source, setup a compiling environment (even install a virtual machine if I have to, as I am on Windows), and start working away at it.

I am serious, I love Spring, and would love to continue developing my AI.

In fact I will even start setting up a developing environment right now.

[hoijui]

the Java AI Interface starts one JVM. all Java AI implementations run in there. different implementations can (and very likely will) use different versions of the same libraries. this requires that each AI Implementation is kept separate under its own class-loader instance. OSGi is a very widely used standard, which does exactly this. before, it was all done in native code that i wrote myself, that called java stuff through JNI.
obviously, my stuff is not as clean, standard, well maintained, tested, ... as is OSGi. using OSGi would remove a lot of ugly code, and come with a lot of new possibilities for free. for example: lots of nice tools to monitor the AI at runtime and the ability to update/add/remove parts of the library at runtime.

when java devs do something that python devs don't understand, it does not mean that it does not make sense. most probable is, that the python dev just... does not understand. you could also call it .. being paranoid or whatever, but that is of course very subjective.

[Petah]

I do understand the concept of OSGi and use it (as a user, not a developer) through the Netbeans Platform.

But how does this fit with the engine/C++ side of things, and where does the main issue reside?

Is it on the engine side, or the Java side (or even a bit of both)?

[hoijui]

try to get an OSGi env running, with a few services (OSGi modules). get this to work cleanly together with the current spring build system, and all the ways in which spring gets distributed (especially interesting here, are the linux package systems). if possible, allow to use different frameworks (felix, equinox, ...). make sure the Java AI Interface can start this environment. all this does not only have to be technically in order, but also according to some additional guidelines. for example, the windows installer of spring can not bloated by a full OSGi framework env just for Java AIs. .. can we assume maven is installed? linux package system guidelines do not allow software to download additional parts (by by beautiful maven & OSGi distribution mechanisms), make sure it is all nicely update-able, should we use basic frameworks like equinox or felix, or a meta framework like pax or karaf? did anyone think about the children?
this is part of ... the main problem, for me.

[gajop]

I can't give much detail on the OSGi part but once you create the build environment I suggest you take a look at the code in the following dirs:
/AI/Interfaces/Java
and most specifically: /AI/Interfaces/Java/src/main/native