Can anyone compile a 40x40 map?

[Aurora]

What the title says. This is my map: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18409631/eurooppa_40x40.rar (download is only 460 kb) and I can't compile it. I have 64-bit Windows 7, Intel i7-2600K and 8 gb of RAM.

MothersMapConv crashes upon loading the texture. MapConvNG first complained of missing libgcc_s_sjlj-1.dll and when I found that online and added it, attempting to compile says the program failed to start properly. Loading the heightmap in SpringMapEdit results in freezing.

Yet, I know there is a 40x40 map and maps of even larger dimensions than that, which I remember having actually played before. So it must be possible to do this, but how? Is anyone able to do it?

[Cheesecan]

It crashes for me too with Mothers Mapconv 2.4 and 8GB RAM. The readme contains a warning saying "MAY NOT SUPPORT LARGE MAPS OF 32*32 SIZE!!"

I was however able to compile it with springmapedit. I noticed that spring will crash when bumpmapped water is enabled though. This is a pretty good reason not to go so big.



If you want a high quality map, always use 16-bit grayscale IBM byte-order RAW for heightmap.

Also your compiler arguments are currently as follows:

Code: Select all

MapConv  -i -c 0.7 -x 700 -n -100 -o "eurooppa_test.smf" -m eurooppa_m.png -t eurooppa_t.png -a eurooppa_h.png -f eurooppa_f.png

You should use this instead for best quality:

Code: Select all

MapConv -i -c 0 -x 700 -n -100 -o "Europpa-v1.smf" -m eurooppa_m.png -f eurooppa_f.png -t eurooppa_t.png -a eurooppa_h.png -z "nvdxt.exe -dxt1a -nmips 4 -Sinc -quality_highest -file"
pause

Your texture is also very pixelated and will not look good even with SSMF. If you want good quality blank world map / europe map I recommend you use one of the many SVG available (vector based) see here. Can be rescaled to any resolution in gimp or photoshop.

If you want a good quality textured world map I can recommend the NASA images here.

Good luck!

[Aurora]

...

Good luck!

Thanks for the tips. How did you compile it with SME though? Since it crashes if I load the heightmap. Could you send me the compiled map so I can see how it is ingame? And how can I practically edit a 16-bit grayscale IBM byte-order RAW file? PSP8 doesn't let me do this, or I can't figure out how. Only 256 shades of gray.

The map in the package is only an early sketchup of the layout, for which I simply resized a picture of the plan. It's not shaped like real Europe nor would I want to use a photorealistic texture. The best part about mapping is painting the texture myself <3 (although it will be a challenge for a 20k^2 image). Here is how I plan it to be: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18409631/europe.png - image subject to changes, suggestions are welcome.

[knorke]

in sme you can set command line parameters, i think there are some to set how much ram it can use etc, might help with loading large heightmap.

[Cheesecan]

Thanks for the tips. How did you compile it with SME though? Since it crashes if I load the heightmap.

In the sh/bat file for springmapedit increase heap space by editing the -xmx argument. I put -xmx 4084m for reference.

Thanks for the tips. How did you compile it with SME though? Since it crashes if I load the heightmap. Could you send me the compiled map so I can see how it is ingame? And how can I practically edit a 16-bit grayscale IBM byte-order RAW file? PSP8 doesn't let me do this, or I can't figure out how. Only 256 shades of gray.

Not quite sure what you mean is the problem? Or maybe this was some pop reference I didn't get. Your heightmap has to be 16-bit, the rest can be 8-bit. This is because you will have scaling effects in spring otherwise (looks like lines across the terrain, like on DSD).

The map in the package is only an early sketchup of the layout, for which I simply resized a picture of the plan. It's not shaped like real Europe nor would I want to use a photorealistic texture. The best part about mapping is painting the texture myself <3 (although it will be a challenge for a 20k^2 image). Here is how I plan it to be: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18409631/europe.png - image subject to changes, suggestions are welcome.

One thing you should probably know is that there exists a couple of europe maps already. They also did similar things with unit move speeds, and it caused lots of bugs like amphibious tanks cannot be damaged, and complete lack of balance. It also breaks other games than BA.

[Aurora]

Not quite sure what you mean is the problem? Or maybe this was some pop reference I didn't get. Your heightmap has to be 16-bit, the rest can be 8-bit. This is because you will have scaling effects in spring otherwise (looks like lines across the terrain, like on DSD).

I don't understand how to get more than 256 height levels. Having a 24-bit palette (I don't get an option for 16-bit in PSP8) still only gives me 256 shades of gray. :S

One thing you should probably know is that there exists a couple of europe maps already. They also did similar things with unit move speeds, and it caused lots of bugs like amphibious tanks cannot be damaged, and complete lack of balance. It also breaks other games than BA.

I made two Europe maps before, neurope_a7 and europe_a2. Back then I didn't have the imagination or skills to do the kind of map I really wanted, so now I'm having a go at it again. How did amphibious tanks break though? I never saw that in the 6 years since I made neurope_a7... and what was wrong with the unit speeds on the roads? I didn't play it much on other mods than BA, though I can create separate versions for different mods if they have special needs.

Also if you mean the map geometry and start locations with complete lack of balance, it's not even meant to be symmetrical or completely fair, which is what makes it interesting for me. However, if you followed the instructions for box placements for three teams in neurope_a7, then each team wins every third game by average - I tested it a lot. Every time people would complain about one of the sides being OP, but the amount of complaints fell equally upon all three sides.

[smoth]

Not quite sure what you mean is the problem? Or maybe this was some pop reference I didn't get. Your heightmap has to be 16-bit, the rest can be 8-bit. This is because you will have scaling effects in spring otherwise (looks like lines across the terrain, like on DSD).

I don't understand how to get more than 256 height levels. Having a 24-bit palette (I don't get an option for 16-bit in PSP8) still only gives me 256 shades of gray. :S

Because 24bit isn't 16bpp. neither is 32 bit.

[jK]

Not quite sure what you mean is the problem? Or maybe this was some pop reference I didn't get. Your heightmap has to be 16-bit, the rest can be 8-bit. This is because you will have scaling effects in spring otherwise (looks like lines across the terrain, like on DSD).

I don't understand how to get more than 256 height levels. Having a 24-bit palette (I don't get an option for 16-bit in PSP8) still only gives me 256 shades of gray. :S

Because 24bit isn't 16bpp. neither is 32 bit.

cause 24-bit palette means 8bit PER CHANNEL.
What you need is 16bpp SINGLE CHANNEL image.

[Cheesecan]

I don't understand how to get more than 256 height levels. Having a 24-bit palette (I don't get an option for 16-bit in PSP8) still only gives me 256 shades of gray. :S

PSP8? As in Paintshop Pro? Didn't think anyone still used that. In Photoshop you can choose Image > Mode > 16 bits/channel.

I made two Europe maps before, neurope_a7 and europe_a2

You made neurope? Very nice :) Quite popular in ffa! Never seen it played for teams though.

Amphib problem is not on your maps, it's on the map that spans all the way down to north africa (forgot the name).

From the times I've played neurope here would be my advice.

1. In BA the map suffers from some balance problems. Usually either UK or Russia will win, sometimes Iceland if they are sneaky. The rest have very small chance. It would be nice if you could incorporate the different unique strategic assets of each country so that everyone has a fighting chance. Well except some of the countries that simply can't.

2. I recommend that you do not change unit speeds. It upsets the well-tested balance of games. Not all games have TA-style unit movement types. Even in BA, kbots will become progressively less cost-effective when you raise movement speeds. People then only go kbot when they start in very close proximity to each other (france) or for can/sumo/crawling bomb or t3. In addition to this, the roads on neurope are quite narrow so it becomes quite porcy. There's very little flanking like you would see on say Comet Catcher Redux. This makes the map lose out on some nice gameplay elements.

3. Play around with different map projections to see if gameplay can be perfected.

4. Use slightly more of the world map, then limit the playable area with lua. You could also make it look like a battlefield table, scroll or something else so you don't have a map that empties into an abyss of sea or other ugliness that is the spring default. For reference see the map Moor made by Beherith.

[Aurora]

edit: I have opted for 32x32 instead.

1. That is because the map wasn't made for FFA to begin with. UK, Russia and Germany are intended to be their own sides in a three-way team game, yet Germany is supposed to have surrounding continent as allies and UK having Scandinavia. This new map, however, will be tailored for both FFA and team games. The strategic assets of the different areas should be evident; for instance, the Nordic countries are somewhat difficult to access and have trees for energy, Eastern Europe has resources spread over a large area yet protected by rivers, snow and swamp, Southern Europe has the Mediterranean and can more easily avoid conflict with everyone north of them, and Germany can expand rapidly while quickly finding itself surrounded by opponents. Svalbard is in the middle of nowhere which is it's benefit and flaw.

2. The speeds in Neurope were drastically increased with a modifier of 1.7 (170%) for all units on the roads. The only place on this map with such a high speed will be Germany. The idea for the unit speed modifiers here is to make different unit types fare better in different zones, ideally kbots and tanks used in combination for effective fighting on a possible Eastern Front and in the Balkans. Do you think a modifier of 1.2 for standard terrain and 1.5 for most of the trails (which are sparse and don't cover the whole map unlike Neurope) will break the unit balance - should I alter them?

3. Right now it's actually a fictional combination of many different projections - to allow for the inclusion of desired territories and the exclusion of unneeded ones. I was trying to stick a part of Greenland in there as well but deemed there's just no practical way of realistically placing it anywhere... though I could stick it in the upper left corner and rely on suspension of disbelief or lack of geographic knowledge.

4. Sadly the required performance for a map of this scale increases around 50% for every 8 units added to both dimensions, which would probably be a minimum to get some kind of nice transition into the void. The Spring team would have to implement a 3D skybox or something of sorts to solve the problem. Sorry, I'm not going to do this.

[Cheesecan]

1. This makes good sense.

2. If you use forbs blueprint you can create a mapoption to toggle speed bonus on/off or low/med/high. I'm not sure if a 32x32 map really needs 1.2 bonus everywhere, 1.2 on roads could be enough.

4. Not sure but peepz made some progress in this thread.