Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

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Rumpelstiltskin
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Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

I cant but laugh at the hate Diablo 3 is getting while torchlight 2 is being praised.
I have torchlight 2 and its a simpler version of Diablo 2, ten years after D2 with a horrible storyline and consequentially a worse atmosphere.
Don't get me wrong, it's fun to play in Co-Op if you have a hack and slash itch to scratch but It is so simplistic and unoriginal...

Even D2 had nothing new.
It burrowed everything from Roguelikes and added nice gfx but torchlight is being released more than 10 years later...
I guess its easier to praise cause they did not overhype it to be the next coming fo christ for the RPG genre like D3 and the price is low but at least D3 tried to innovate a bit by changing the skill acquisition and usage.

Torchlight 2 is moddable but they provided absolutely no infrustructure for players to easily share and play mods of others.
Again...the 20$ price tag i guess...

IMO Borderlands 2 blows both games away easily.
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Hoi
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by Hoi »

Diablo 3 is not a video game, it's a means for activision to obtain money.

Torchlight 2 is a video game. Do you know where it innovates? Perhaps not so much in the game itself, although it's quite well done and the story really isn't as bad as you say it is, I actually like it a lot. It innovates in price, and in connection between developers and players. If I purchase this game for a reasonable price, I know it ends up in a place to allow someone who loves making games to continue to do so. If I buy diablo 3, I know it will only fuel more of activision's machine of destroying games and studios.

If you expect every game to innovate, you have wrong expectations. At least by your definition of innovate. You simply expected the game to be something which it isn't.

Also roguelikes borrowed as well. Don't even say diablo II and roguelikes were practically the same, and in the same way torchlight 2 is definitely different from diablo II. Additionally, diablo III didn't innovate. Well, yeah, it innovated on new creative ways to destroy games and studios by linking "real "money to everything.

Borderlands 2 is almost borderlands 1 with a different story. How does it innovate? It tries to be 'cool', but suffers from the exact same problems many similar shooters do. Where did it innovate? It barely did. That doesn't make it a bad game. But what it does mean, when also keeping in mind other games that have come out recently, is that it's really time for some innovation in gaming.
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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

:roll:
I don't think It's fair or relevant to compare the two companies when we are trying to compare the two games.
They should be judged and compared based on their own features and what they bring to the table, not whether the companies behind them are worth supporting.
First of all, the FACTS are that torchlight 2 innovates in absolutely nothing.
Even the story is derivative of D2.
Couldnt they at least come up with a story that does not remind us of D2?
You are following a great evil that roams the land...yes yes.
I know the devs of T2 devved D2 but couldn't they come up with a completely original story of their own and one that would not make me yawn or not give a shit about it?
At least D2 had a great atmosphere, great cutscenes and the text was full of character and worthy of mention.

D3 tried to tackle some of the problems with the D2 leveling system.
Despite allowing you to apply points to diff stats, eventually, it all came down to a strict system you must follow when leveling up in order to create a character that can finish the game on all game difficulties and beat other characters in PVP.
It had many flaws and D3 tried to tackle them.
The new System also has its flaws and its hard ot say, ultimately which is better, but at least they are trying to go forward somehow.

The real money auction house came to replace the D2 black market.
Players will always sell items for real money for an online rpg game that stores char data online, so they might as well create a safe system to do it officially.

Rogue-likes predate Diablo by about 15 years just for your information.
Today's Roguelikes are much much more complex than any of the Diablo titles.

I dont expect every game to innovate and improve.
I'd like many of them to but I was not expecting T2 to innovate Im just amazed how people adore it despite it being a completely backwards game.
Go and download tales of majeyal or Adom or Crawl and enjoy A free far superior dungeon crawler than torchlight 2/Diablo 2.

@price.
I think its worthy of mention that D3 devs have, since release made many changes and added many stuff with a promis of more to come including pvp.
Torchlight 2 engine is the same they used for the first game...
T2 has no pvp nor will it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Tldr:
1)Comparing the companies has nothing to do with the discussion.
2)I am not a D3 fanboy but in fact the exact opposite.
3)Torchlight Is extremely derivative and brings even less innovation to the genre than D3.

both games are extremely flawed when it comes to improving and adding to the hack and slash genre.
My interest was in just flashing out that torchlight 2 is not as praise worthy and D3 is not as bad as some torchlight fans want to make it seem.

I'd recommend to hack and slash fans to wait for Path of exile.
that game looks like what Diablo 3 should have been like.
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smoth
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by smoth »

I refuse to buy diablo 3 because they hamstrung character creation but I can say I like TL2 so far.
Hoi wrote:Borderlands 2 is almost borderlands 1 with a different story. How does it innovate? It tries to be 'cool', but suffers from the exact same problems many similar shooters do. Where did it innovate? It barely did. That doesn't make it a bad game.
I disagree with most of this. Bl2 greatly improved on the prior game, it doesn't try to be cool. It is borderlands 1 with MORE. More weapon differences, more story, more dialogue, more character.

where I don't disagree:
Games do not have to "innovate" we have had 30 years of game development and we do get occasional very different and innovative ideas but some things are good concepts. What does change in the fairly similar genre of games is that we can do MORE. So games are largely not innovating but they are adding complexity, depth and visual appeal that just wasn't possible. I actually feel bad for kids these days as they didn't grow up seeing atari->8bit->16bit->3dconsoles->current generation. Innovation doesn't have to happen, they can just keep improving on what we like.

Which leads me to why I don't play diablo 3, they took away gameplay by hamstringing character creation. They took away lan mode. They took away the ability to play mods. I don't really give 2 fucks about the marketplace stuff. I care about the stuff they took away and acted like they added more.
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zwzsg
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by zwzsg »

If you want innovation go play Magicka.

Just played started playing TL2, and so far it' enjoyable. Didn't find much difference compared to TL1, but to answer OP, the Torchlight series still brought:
- Pet that can you send town to sell items (came from Fate, which is kinda predecessor to Torchlight).
- Spectral beast : A mob that randomly appears, when you kill it it turns into a portal to a short but super hard level (helps breaks monotony).

I also like that in Torchlight, there's tons of loot, with lots of variety useable item within that loot. For instance, about 3hr after starting, I was already wearing two complete sets (at once!).
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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

I totally agree on the loot part.
I think they botched it in Diablo 3.
You hardly ever feel like you found some awesome gear or weapon.
In torchlight 2 its much better.
I constantly feel like Im getting these awesome weapons that just kick ass compared to my previous ones and there are some interesting weapon characteristics compared to Diablo 3.
I of course never said the game is not fun.It is.
they have the gameplay nailed It's just a shame they did not add anything conceptually new or made an impressive/memorable plot/story.
That is something that is real hard to fix no matter how many patches or expansions you release.

Its worth the 20$ if you are happy with the old school hack and slash formula no doubt I am enjoying it and have played several hours of the game but i wish they took a few more risks.
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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

Wanted to add something.
I dont think borderlands 2 is the epitome of innovation I just think it is the same loot fest as D and T but it also has great voice acting and good dialogues/monologues....
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Funkencool
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by Funkencool »

Basically I look at it as Torchlight 2 perfecting something I know and love, and Diablo 3 perhaps idk.. maybe dumbing it down for the people that don't already love action RPGs (making more money in the end). Diablo 3 might have been a decent story (no where near diablo 2's though) etc.. but it ends there, it lacks so many things I look for in games (reference smoths post). If there were no previous entries in the ARPG genre (and no talk of "innovation") I would hands down pick torchlight 2, its just simply a good game without baggage. I can do what I, yes I not blizzard, want to do with it, no hoops to jump through or anything.

Also to what you said earlier about no platform for the mods, I believe, don't quote me on this, I read that steam will support them like it does skyrim. That would be awesome.

Edit: Borderlands 2 is just damn good entertainment, with the benefit of good gameplay.
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rattle
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by rattle »

I've played both the Torchlight 2 and Diablo 3 beta and Torchlight was flawed in many places but fun to play. Cannot say the same about Diablo. For the 20 bucks you pay you recieve an actual game, not a passport to play a simplified version of WoW on one of Blizzards servers.

Borderlands 2 is 50 bucks. I was disappointed with BL1, so I wont spend another 50 bucks on BL2. That simple.
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Azhukar
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by Azhukar »

People play hack and slash for the story and innovation?

I thought it was about creating your own badass character and doing badass things. Which both TL2 and B2 allow you to do. D3 not so much. D3 is more of a social network.
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zwzsg
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by zwzsg »

Even the story is derivative of D2.
Couldnt they at least come up with a story that does not remind us of D2?
You are following a great evil that roams the land...yes yes.
Oh, I see, you never played any game other than Diablo 2. I suppose Diablo 2 must have looked quite innovative to you in that case. And yes all game looks like Diablo 2 when Diablo 2 is the only game you know. Because I'm sorry, but "great evil roam the land" is the story of nearly every game set in a fantasy setting. (As opposed to: evil alien attack us when in a sci-fi setting).

Personnaly I find i rather quirky that the great evil of Torchlight 2 is a player character from Torchlight 1. Especially considering I picked the Alchemist class on the character I finished Torchlight 1 with.

I would not say that bit of story of innovative. I'm pretty sure other games too have the hero of the first episode turn into the boss of the second after being corrupted by its evil essence. For exemple, this is the plot of none other than ... Diablo II! The fact that you missed this similarity in the stories and stayed on the surface with "great evil that roams the land" show that you have no qualification to talk on the subject. Please go back to your cavern and come out only after you've grown wiser and more educate in the matter of video-games.
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WombatTheUnstoppable
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by WombatTheUnstoppable »

D3 tried to innovate a bit by changing the skill acquisition and usage.
I find it funny you call it innovation... The only innovative thing i see in d3 are irl money auctions. Go figure.

Makes me sad that someone had to start d3 vs tl2 thread, but i guess it had to happen >_>

Anyway, TL2 is great game, it has many features no other H&S i know ever had (well, except tl1 lol). For me, its worth every single penny i spent on it. Showing middle finger to blizzard is priceless too :)
If you are looking for game that will make you feel 'pro', with many useless leaderboards, then yes, its not the game for you. If you are looking for pure fun and many enjoyable hours spent with your friends, then smoke less crack and spend that extra 20$ on Torchlight 2.

To sum up, TL2 vs d3:
Image
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KDR_11k
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by KDR_11k »

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:I cant but laugh at the hate Diablo 3 is getting while torchlight 2 is being praised.
I have torchlight 2 and its a simpler version of Diablo 2, ten years after D2 with a horrible storyline and consequentially a worse atmosphere.
Still puts it far ahead of Diablo 3 though, that game's just plain boring.
IMO Borderlands 2 blows both games away easily.
True that, they finally made Borderlands fun and FPS is much better than the combat system in Diablo and its ilk.
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Das Bruce
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by Das Bruce »

KDR_11k wrote:True that, they finally made Borderlands fun and FPS is much better than the combat system in Diablo and its ilk.
Have they made it so I don't get a repeat of Borderlands 1 where I can shoot a guy in the face with a sniper rifle from dawn 'till dusk and not kill him?
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zwzsg
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by zwzsg »

Das Bruce, it sounds like you missed a key concept of the HnS genre: Levels.
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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

Most baddies in borderlands 2 will take massive damage if hit in the head but will not always get one shotted.
Last edited by Rumpelstiltskin on 27 Sep 2012, 04:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Funkencool
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by Funkencool »

It really depends on how your skills and guns effect critical hit damage. Certain guns will have up to 200% percent critical damage (mostly snipers), with skills effecting it a lot less. But in the end the game's not about realism and one shots, that would ruin the whole point of the game.
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Das Bruce
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by Das Bruce »

zwzsg wrote:Das Bruce, it sounds like you missed a key concept of the HnS genre: Levels.
Yeah, I think this is why I always prefered the STALKER games.
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KDR_11k
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by KDR_11k »

Das Bruce wrote:
KDR_11k wrote:True that, they finally made Borderlands fun and FPS is much better than the combat system in Diablo and its ilk.
Have they made it so I don't get a repeat of Borderlands 1 where I can shoot a guy in the face with a sniper rifle from dawn 'till dusk and not kill him?
Depends on the guy but I think they take so much damage that if it doesn't oneshot them it leaves them near dead at least (of course depends on the exact weapon you're using, if you use a crappy or obsolete weapon it's not gonna work as well) unless they're minibosses or full bosses (which isn't very different from other games, I remember unloading a full jackhammer clip into the face of a boss in Max Payne). I'm not terribly familiar with sniper rifles since I play a gunzerker and you can't scope while dual-wielding.

Also weapons with elemental effects won't hurt as much if they aren't used on their preferred target (e.g. electro weapons are meant for anti-shield use, they deal less damage to unshielded targets).

That said I used to play Section 8 where it took 4 headshots with a pistol to kill an enemy with unupgraded armor (the sniper rifles had to down their shields first so it varied a lot more on those).
Last edited by KDR_11k on 27 Sep 2012, 20:44, edited 1 time in total.
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rattle
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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3

Post by rattle »

After going through the TL2 forums a bit the god mode berserker build apparently still is in the game... 2x the fastest +charge +crit knuckles with DOT enchants to stack the DOT for damage combined with a life leech and high crit chance build simply does not die unless you are totally reckless.

Fast weapons and damage over time enchantments really took the difficulty out of the beta even on elite. Anyone actually playing it and got some feedback on this?
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