Project eternity

[smoth]

Randomized worked well for borderlands had the done randomizations on the enemy models it would have been amazing

[tzaeru]

Personally I find sandbox worlds and computer generated quests, artwork and so really lifeless and empty in most games.

Human hand just is superior in it's creative offerings to other humans compared to some recursive algorithm, at least so far. I personally have only liked one sandbox "RPG" and that'd be Mount & Blade - but this wasn't as much due to the sandbox nature of it, as it was due to the combat which was (and I suppose still is) pretty fresh and interesting.

If there's a good story, a good atmosphere, a good world.. There's just no reason to obscure it underneath a vast landscape of computer-plotted trees and Daggerfall-esqueish generation.

I sincerely hope that Obsidian realizes what actually made Fallout 1, Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate 2 so unique. If they do, there's a chance of success - if they clutter it under hours of boring, repetitive dungeons and whatnot, it's going to be like any other modern RPG.

[Azhukar]

Personally I find sandbox worlds and computer generated quests, artwork and so really lifeless and empty in most games.

Sounds like Skyrim. Even the non 'random' quests were pretty Draugr though.

[smoth]

Human hand just is superior in it's creative offerings to other humans compared to some recursive algorithm, at least so far.

human hands make largely derivative junk. Game are generally is churned out quickly and very few games really do good models and textures. Most of it is very samey. I think you are confusing vidia game models with actual art.

[tzaeru]

Human hand just is superior in it's creative offerings to other humans compared to some recursive algorithm, at least so far.

human hands make largely derivative junk. Game are generally is churned out quickly and very few games really do good models and textures. Most of it is very samey. I think you are confusing vidia game models with actual art.

Well, true, most art and games are not really worth a second glance, regardless of how they were made.

What I referred to though, was the amount of art and detail in graphics and quests in games like Star Control 2 or hell, even Morrowind. No generated quests, dungeons or the like. Compared to Oblivion or Skyrim, Morrowind had basically every single item and tree placed manually. In a way, I found it to have the kind of charm that most games lack. But yeah, of course it's not like every trees position was pondered through or that every cave's every turn and lighting condition were carefully tweaked. Still, I liked that game, but I didn't like Oblivion or Skyrim, nor Daggerfall.

[smoth]

oh yeah, definitely as far as quests go. Nothing can replace hand crafted quests. I just think the rank and file stuff should be generated piecemeal to create less of the exact same orc #125122

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Morrowind was nice for its time.
It was not mature by any means.
Most of it's quests were childish and silly.
Maybe it was nice cause you were younger?Hypnotised by its, than cool, gfx and immersive visuals?

If done today id probably not like it.
It's races are pretty boring as well.
That is something i never liked about the elder scrolls.

I don't see the fun in investing time in a completely static gameworld anymore, no matter how big.
I think AI and Simulation are the way to make good lasting single player games with emergent gameplay.
You can have elaborate story telling within a randomly generated game world as well.
The generation can take into account story parameters or even have certain places or characters untouched.
But a game that only changes when the player does something, a dead world, where One must ignore the game world's properties to enjoy it is A boring gameworld without replayability.

Instead of making Higher res armor I'd like Bethesda to add more simulation and more complex AI to their games.
I'd Like to have a randomly generated world(within certain confines) with trees and plants and rivers being places based on the geometry and climates set to each region...
If the game generation is simulated enough and can be interacted with inside the game by NPCs and the players It will always be interesting and will always make sense.
Have factions, have all the NPC's have proporties and wishes and basic needs.
Have groups, clans,factions with certain goals...
And allow them all to interact.
Simulate dont use hacks to cheat the player into beleiving the world is alive.

Its what spring has been about IMO.
If it wasnt for it's relatively complex simulation of the battlefield it would not have survived past the supcom series or StarCraft 2.

[Azhukar]

Simulate dont use hacks to cheat the player into beleiving the world is alive.

If the player believes it then it's a successful simulation of a living game world.

[PicassoCT]

This "We need perfect AI and realistic simulations" delusion is still alive? I remember when the stalker guys started out and made a realistic behaviour ai + random populated enviroment.. but suddenly a wild testgamer appears, and he doesent find the 100 mutated bears, hunting one mutated boar, stompeding over the player into a military outpost.. leaving a enemybare land behind game not fun. I wonder why.

Now lets take another game.. for example hl.. or hl2 .. not really smart ai, not really random enviroments, instead carefull simulation of a perfect day in such a enviorment. If there's somethin' strange and the ai aint any good! Who ya gonna call? EventScriptors. If it's somethin' weird an it won't look good. Who ya gonna call! SFX-BLASTARDS!
And who do you call, when the entertaiment starts to stall? Mindbusters!

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Well I know its shocking But i didnt like HL2 exactly because of its linearity.

[PicassoCT]

I never liked those games who stuffed there oh so dramatic story with endless collect 10.000 boar-skins and explore the world quests. Demon burning down the kingdom? Better fullfill my quests then stranger, i can stand here all eternity, you wont ever get that 100% archievment without doing me a favour. Pacing? Bah, nothing so important that it cant wait for a thousand good deeds to the local peasants. Now get in the shed, heroe-whore you are! I know your kind, for a little Exp you would do anything... right?

I also never found any pleasure in just walking around. Exploration is only meaningfull if it is broken by times of tense action or horr (or) any other emo.. something which a random generated level only can bring by endless F7 like reapering enemys, scaling up with there values with your chars developing.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

This shows promise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXcuZV77UJY

[dimm]

For some reason this thread made me think of Rogue
survivor:
http://roguesurvivor.blogspot.com/p/about.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzHrdqikga4

[smoth]

This shows promise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXcuZV77UJY

everything is brown grey.