An overhaul of BA balance

[Silentwings]

I was not really talking to you, I was making a gentle dig at basic, who is also part of this conversation.

[Eadword]

I believe that some changes should be made, but it is pretty good already. For instance BA is quite fun, but t2 is underused, I would not say under powered. I think the best solution is simply to make the t1 labs build a little slower so that there is a good reason to want to go up to the next level, that or make more effective anti swarm defenses.

The other thing that should be fixed is some of the buildings seem a little pointless, like the hovercraft factory, it should either be added to the vehicle lab or the dock, otherwise they are rarely used when there are some times that they would be nice, if it was easier to build them.

Power should also be a little easier to gain for starting the t2 to help speed up the transition, perhaps this could be fixed by a moho wind turbine or by making a small fusion reactor, that or making the current fusion reactor quicker to build, but not to the point that the advanced fusion reactor is pointless.

Other than that the game can really stay as it is, the good anti-swarm defenses construct-able by t1 would allow the players to desire going to the next level and the better power would make it faster. Also with the hovercraft added to another building, if they are wanted they do not have to go through 3 builders to get a t2, making it a pointless endeavor in most cases as it is.

[Koo]

I like to Porc...

... Porc makes me lose every game in BA...

... BA is bad.

Just kidding BA is pretty good. But still statistic defence has been nerfed down so bad you literally shouldnt build any static T1 defence, ever.

I don't quite understand why like LLT (which is basically a laser in top of a stick, or pole) is as expensive as two gators - in metal. And when Those two gators attack LLT usually explodes.

--

I remember back in the days it was easier to defend your stuff and it wasn't all this "push push push" "spam spam spam" tactics because static defence usually could handle that when built correctly.

So you had to build different kind of units to "counter" these static defences.

It was also more newbie friendly, because attacking is hard - defending was easy.

-Koo

[Johannes]

Yes, two gators kill an llt. But an llt costs less than one gator. Static defense is good.


Also favoring attack, I think, IS newb friendly in a way. The shorter the games the better chance a newb has - in a long, defensive game, they'll inevitably make more mistakes and just prolong their loss. It's easier to come up with a good rush and execute it than a good 20-minute gameplan and pull that off.

[tzaeru]

I like to Porc...
Just kidding BA is pretty good. But still statistic defence has been nerfed down so bad you literally shouldnt build any static T1 defence, ever.

I'd have to disagree. LLT is seen in virtually all games. HLT makes appearances in small to large team games (it's range has it's place if you can put it up quickly or into a chokepoint) and even Guardian can now that it is cheaper, be usable in reaching into or close to enemy base in chokepointed maps with hills.

I don't quite understand why like LLT (which is basically a laser in top of a stick, or pole) is as expensive as two gators - in metal. And when Those two gators attack LLT usually explodes.

LLT is around 30% cheaper than gator in both metal and energy and does kill a single gator. Even two unmicroed ones that come in row.

I remember back in the days it was easier to defend your stuff and it wasn't all this "push push push" "spam spam spam" tactics because static defence usually could handle that when built correctly.

When was this "back in the days"?

Don't think BA has ever had such static defenses that encouraged their use over pushing.

The other thing that should be fixed is some of the buildings seem a little pointless, like the hovercraft factory, it should either be added to the vehicle lab or the dock, otherwise they are rarely used when there are some times that they would be nice, if it was easier to build them.

I see plenty of hovers in maps with water. Tumult, Small Supreme Battlefield, DeltaSiege (with water) etc all have hovers as an usual guest.

Thing is, that hovers are 1. generally faster to attack with than amphibious units 2. immune to torpedos 3. able to fight sea to a degree, which makes them pretty powerful as they are. Since sea is so expensive and slow to start with, building hovers instantly would probably require rebalancing of sea.

[Pxtl]

AA 1.4X, BA's predecessor, before Caydr buffed the speed of all the vehicles and kbots ruled the day. That's when the game was porcy.

That was about 7 years ago.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

The "good old days"

[Johannes]

And well, it is more porcy on maps where only bots are usable. Though still quite dynamic enough.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

am I the only one who thinks BA 1v1 Bot maps suck now?
Its all about the rezzers...
In fact they are the only bot unit you MUST use when going bots, whether its a team game where you just make rockos/hammers to sustain a front or a 1v1 where you also need PW and AK..
They are an OP unit and I personaly find them very annoying and tedious to play with.
You have to micro them like crazy to fully utilize them ala starcraft.
You must focus repair your assault units, sometimes having to redirect all of them from one unit to another.
you have to constantly rezz units on the battlefield in the middle of the fight and all this while keeping them alive and they are extremely fragile and can chain....

Adding them to T1 was a simple rushed solution to a more complicated problem of T1 bots being under powered compared to T1 vehicles.
now they are not but its all because rezzers are OP.

[Silentwings]

Nice explanations, tzaeru.

[Johannes]

am I the only one who thinks BA 1v1 Bot maps suck now?
Its all about the rezzers...
In fact they are the only bot unit you MUST use when going bots, whether its a team game where you just make rockos/hammers to sustain a front or a 1v1 where you also need PW and AK..
They are an OP unit and I personaly find them very annoying and tedious to play with.
You have to micro them like crazy to fully utilize them ala starcraft.
You must focus repair your assault units, sometimes having to redirect all of them from one unit to another.
you have to constantly rezz units on the battlefield in the middle of the fight and all this while keeping them alive and they are extremely fragile and can chain....

Adding them to T1 was a simple rushed solution to a more complicated problem of T1 bots being under powered compared to T1 vehicles.
now they are not but its all because rezzers are OP.

No way, most all that stuff you listed about rezzers, is obviously cool. They're not overpowered just because they're useful, they fill their own niche and don't steal the thunder from any other unit.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I'm confused.
Was that sarcasm?

[Johannes]

(no)

[Silentwings]

...and don't steal the thunder from any other unit.

+1, thats why I don't object to their frequent use. And imo having a part of BA which asks for high speed micro is a good thing.

[tzaeru]

However, it is valid to say that rezzers are basically the only mandatory unit in kbot maps in whole game.

Otherwise, it's dependent on map. Some maps you can win with only Samsons, or only flash; Some maps you can win with only PeeWee and others with only Rockos for attacking units.

This isn't to say that I thought rezzers shouldn't be in the game as they are, since I certainly do think they fit in, but I'd just like to mention that Rumpelstiltskin isn't wrong in his opinion either.

[Silentwings]

Well, he's not wrong in that bit of his opinion

[Johannes]

Well the facts are quite right in that post, nobody can argue much else... It's just the opinions on them which vary.

[albator]

However, it is valid to say that rezzers are basically the only mandatory unit in kbot maps in whole game.

one microed AK kill 2 rocko and a rez. I dont understand what all this bawing is about

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I was just expressing my dissatisfaction with the current rezzers meta..
I personally don't like how you have to use them in 1v1s when it comes to bots and i don't like rezzers micro.
Don't really mind them in team games cause you are not so dependent on microing them successfully to survive.
In 1v1s you are.
either you succeed at quickly rezzing that pile of wrckage or you die.
Blink once 2 rocko rockets kill ur 4 rezzers and gg.

[albator]

I can underdand that, If you dont like microing, BA is definitly not the game for you, I advise you to go play C&C