NTai XE10.1b

[Targon]

Just me, but I perfer playing around with little updates throughout the week rather than wait several months for a major update

[AF]

Having fixed 0.29a and havign a 0.29b I tweaked around with ti and got very dissatisfied.

The fixed agents are rpesent in 0.3 test build 5, aswell as core commander buildtree, btu there arent any build trees for con kbot and factories defined, it'll revert to universal mod code.

Nobody has told me if test build 5 even works, it should work, but 12 people have downlaoded it, I guess I should add a clause tot he dowload description forbidding people from downloading it if they arent willing to submit reports, even if its just an "all's ok"

I have a horrific physics test tomorrow morning that i am probably gonna mess up, I fele like crap, and I got a maths exam on monday, after which I got ICT coursework then I've got a few itches in the spring engine I need to scratch (coloured nanolathe sprays for example), and get gentoo installed on ym comp and build spring

[Maelstrom]

coloured nanolathe sprays for example

yay!

[Min3mat]

does that include see through nanobeams and frames for TA: K?

[AF]

When the cob script asks for the building nanospray to be shown, the engien see that then ti gives a set fo aprameters to another piece of code. One fo those parameters is handwritten rather than dynamically generated, hence it is the colour green in rgb values as you see it in game.

My thought is that if you made it load the colour from the unit fbi but use green if ti isnt present then you could apss in the new colour instead and let the moder change ti as they like.

An alternative idea I had would be to let nanospray be the same colour as your team, which would have to be a check box in the options program, off by default.

I'd have to download the new source from the berlios svn first and see what I can change and how to use the new tdf parser.

[Min3mat]

cool.
and if u could get the kingdoms builders to perform their animation before building? (cracks beastmasters whip)

[Maelstrom]

Why not have the option in the FBI to set the nano as team coloured? Then it would be like that for everyone if the mod specified it, not just the random person that stumbled upon it in the settings.

[Chocapic]

Why not have the option in the FBI to set the nano as team coloured? Then it would be like that for everyone if the mod specified it, not just the random person that stumbled upon it in the settings.

i like very much of the green nano color and i wouldnt like to have it changed while i play normally , only for curiosity and fun once in a while.
So i think leaving it off in the settings as default is good.

[Maelstrom]

I ment leave it green if not specified, or if the modder wants they can assign it to team or custom colour. letting the user specify it is just weird.

[alaney3]

Having fixed 0.29a and havign a 0.29b Nobody has told me if test build 5 even works,

I just noticed your new .29 b verson and with no documtation in the file. I played 1 game with NTAI_release.dll and it crashed just after 2 minutes.

Now is this version suppost to be used with the last verson as an addition or what? Thanks

[Chocapic]

I ment leave it green if not specified, or if the modder wants they can assign it to team or custom colour. letting the user specify it is just weird.

i meant let the user specify if they want the modder to overchoose the nanocolor or if they want to keep it as OTA default

[AF]

I havent released 0.29b, Test build 5 is test build 4 of 0.3 with fixes, anti stall code, and the 0.29b agents forward ported.

Suffice to say people have reported it doesnt work udner the ordinary build tree system as well as it should, and it seems to work better if there are no factories and it's all nanoblobz0.1/Taros style, but thats cus of soem wierd problem I found, btu I aint bene coding as much the last few days.

As for allowing the moddr to define the colour as the team colour, i think both should be added, and the settings prog needs redoing eventually. I'm sure such an option would be tied into the new GUI menus.

[Radamanthe]

Chocapic, are not his open source test releases a way of speeding up the development cycle as people report bugs and send patches?

That is true although the coder has to do some testing first, you dont see game companies releasing 1000 versions do you ?

Is TASpring a release version ? No. Why ? now you partially know.

Serious game companies generally have their own testers during the development process (internally or externally, but rarely public as most commercial projects want everyone in the process to be under NDA). What do you think ? I programmed games tested internally by around 10 testers everyday from beta to release (they are usually called QA (Quality Approval) departements, and believe it or not, this is a real work and mostly boring after months testing the same game everyday). Be sure I never heard any of those testers whine at me (or any other developper) for any bug at any stage, even very boring bugs and even if they last along several versions... they just wouldn't dare. Some of them became friends for this mark of respect. They report bugs with max context details, and that's all developpers want. Sometimes there are tests versions for QA during alpha phases, and sometimes there are even public beta tests, but this is normally a "post-beta" phase.

As TASpring project is open-source, there is no NDA stuffs, they just need public tests all the time, and you're supposed to be in this part of the staff, with thousands of other people around here.

Its only supposed to be released when you see no bugs (after quite some testing).

It is true that developpers do test their own work, but this is almost just fondamental testing of what has just been implemented. Testing is time consuming, and they have work ! They generally don't lose time searching for new bugs, as those can be virtually anything and there are testers for doing this.

By the way : don't think because one mod, or plugin (or AI in that case, anyway) produces a problem not produced by other mod/plugin..., just don't think this means that the mod in question is responsible, especially when the main engine is in beta phase. This can be true most of the time, but not always. If the engine lose stability in a certain context and only one mod "trigger" this context, this is still an engine bug.

Finally, just NEVER forget that : for one bug the testers find, the developpers found and fixed hundred bugs before they reach any tester. This is the developper everyday life.

[Chocapic]

Chocapic, are not his open source test releases a way of speeding up the development cycle as people report bugs and send patches?

That is true although the coder has to do some testing first, you dont see game companies releasing 1000 versions do you ?

Is TASpring a release version ? No. Why ? now you partially know.

Serious game companies generally have their own testers during the development process (internally or externally, but rarely public as most commercial projects want everyone in the process to be under NDA). What do you think ? I programmed games tested internally by around 10 testers everyday from beta to release (they are usually called QA (Quality Approval) departements, and believe it or not, this is a real work and mostly boring after months testing the same game everyday). Be sure I never heard any of those testers whine at me (or any other developper) for any bug at any stage, even very boring bugs and even if they last along several versions... they just wouldn't dare. Some of them became friends for this mark of respect. They report bugs with max context details, and that's all developpers want. Sometimes there are tests versions for QA during alpha phases, and sometimes there are even public beta tests, but this is normally a "post-beta" phase.

As TASpring project is open-source, there is no NDA stuffs, they just need public tests all the time, and you're supposed to be in this part of the staff, with thousands of other people around here.

Its only supposed to be released when you see no bugs (after quite some testing).

It is true that developpers do test their own work, but this is almost just fondamental testing of what has just been implemented. Testing is time consuming, and they have work ! They generally don't lose time searching for new bugs, as those can be virtually anything and there are testers for doing this.

By the way : don't think because one mod, or plugin (or AI in that case, anyway) produces a problem not produced by other mod/plugin..., just don't think this means that the mod in question is responsible, especially when the main engine is in beta phase. This can be true most of the time, but not always. If the engine lose stability in a certain context and only one mod "trigger" this context, this is still an engine bug.

Finally, just NEVER forget that : for one bug the testers find, the developpers found and fixed hundred bugs before they reach any tester. This is the developper everyday life.

All you said its true, but theres one tiny issue that is , as i mentioned comparing to a game company was not a very good comparison because making a ai for spring is a million times simpler. Example : KAI works very good for me with no crashes what so ever!
Maybe he took a simpler aproach to the ai issue, maybe he didnt.
Maybe he hardcoded more or tested more.
All im saying is that coming out with a nearly bugfree ai is not that hard!
I dont complaint of 3 or 4 releases fixing bugs, but i think those should be as much as whats needed for fixing them, not many more.

[AF]

Chocapic, be thankful that any builds whatsoever are released, and be aware that what may run perfectly for you may crash and burn for someone else.

Also making a bugfree AI cannot be justified as easy, ti depends on how complex the systems are, and the facilities available to the developer. KAI has the benefit of extensive playtesting in multiplayer games, which i would do aswell if my internet time wasnt limited to an hour a day.


Overralll chocapic, I recommend you stay silent, your posts give me a headache, and they arent helping me at all, go talk about AAI or KAI if you need to say anything but please dotn give submarine and Krogothe such a hard time either.

I wouldnt be expecting a fixed test build 6 for at least a week, my hands are shaking, my legs feel weak, and I got a terrible headache, and I got my last/biggest exam tomorrow afternoon, and I'm nto sure I'd be able to make it into school without vommiting. So please lay off, and you neednt test build 5 anymore, I've found the problm, I just need to figure out what's causing it without falling off my chair.

[Chocapic]

Chocapic, be thankful that any builds whatsoever are released, and be aware that what may run perfectly for you may crash and burn for someone else.

Also making a bugfree AI cannot be justified as easy, ti depends on how complex the systems are, and the facilities available to the developer. KAI has the benefit of extensive playtesting in multiplayer games, which i would do aswell if my internet time wasnt limited to an hour a day.


Overralll chocapic, I recommend you stay silent, your posts give me a headache, and they arent helping me at all, go talk about AAI or KAI if you need to say anything but please dotn give submarine and Krogothe such a hard time either.

I wouldnt be expecting a fixed test build 6 for at least a week, my hands are shaking, my legs feel weak, and I got a terrible headache, and I got my last/biggest exam tomorrow afternoon, and I'm nto sure I'd be able to make it into school without vommiting. So please lay off, and you neednt test build 5 anymore, I've found the problm, I just need to figure out what's causing it without falling off my chair.

lol AF youre getting it all wrong .
I was justifying the need or not of a lot of versions!!!!
my posts give you a headache ???? so far ive made 2 comments about you -> spelling errors and a lot of updates!! nothing more!!!!!! (can you understand it ?)
i didnt mention the strength your ai, nor compared it with any ai what so ever (in what concerns strength , structure, flexibility , improvement easyness, etc ,etc.... . Did you understand this too ? (i only compareed
your ai to others in what concerns number of versions).
I posted out my first comment in the number of versions you release as a constructive one and you got it wrong.
All and all i think you should be the one who should be less agressive towards others ai dev's , trying to come with ur ai at top always (wich is what makes you mad about my posts).
Do you see me giving a hard time to them ??? (submarine and krogothe)
if you're ill leave the pc alone and come back when you're state of health is good.making an ai is not a matter of life and death....

[AF]

Chocapic, if thats it then why didnt you stay quiet after i replied and other people said they liked having something to tweak with?

And if that si true then whya rent I harassing KAI threads, and posting masses of NTAI hype? I've already stated that KAI on XTA core now beats NTAI a lot of the time, and I've already stated that i havent been doing much on my AI lately and wont be the next week. It's not like this thread has a compile button at the top....

Eitherway you seem to ahve made a lot mroe than 2 posts, and your not very friendly in them either.

Eitherway I'm nto mad because I need to eb ontop all the time, I am nto ontop right now and I'm not pushing ahead with NTAI at lightspeed. I'm annoyed with yuo because of your posts and their attitude, you just seem to push and push the point and your not very friendly about it.

You've made your points, so please just let it go

[Chocapic]

Chocapic, if thats it then why didnt you stay quiet after i replied and other people said they liked having something to tweak with?

And if that si true then whya rent I harassing KAI threads, and posting masses of NTAI hype? I've already stated that KAI on XTA core now beats NTAI a lot of the time, and I've already stated that i havent been doing much on my AI lately and wont be the next week. It's not like this thread has a compile button at the top....

Eitherway you seem to ahve made a lot mroe than 2 posts, and your not very friendly in them either.

Eitherway I'm nto mad because I need to eb ontop all the time, I am nto ontop right now and I'm not pushing ahead with NTAI at lightspeed. I'm annoyed with yuo because of your posts and their attitude, you just seem to push and push the point and your not very friendly about it.

You've made your points, so please just let it go

I had glady let it go by now, but you keep bringing the topics back...
I already sayd what i wanted to, but let me state once more another thing.
I did never make any comment bad or good about youre development speed , etc, etc, etc...
I already sayd what i pointed out from all the posts, and that was pretty much it..
I meant them in a constructive way , and i was sarcastic too.
Im not guilty you understood the posts in a negative way, as that was not the point.. ("need a AF translater" -> remember this ? i was being sarcastic, and other ppl have said that too .Im really not guilty youre taking all things in a bad negative way...)

[AF]

Then please dont use sarcasm.

[Triaxx2]

I think that's about enough. AF, go be busy with school or what ever you have to do to stop being sick, because it appears to be making you cranky my friend. I'm not trying to be mean, because when I'm sick, I'm completely unbearable, unless I'm vomiting, which only helps, because I can't talk.

Chocapic, let it go will you please? If he responds, ignore it.

It's hard enough for anyone to get any AI work done, and AI topics suddenly erupting into flame wars don't help any. I realize that neither of you intended it to happen, but it did. Now, can we get on with whatever we're doing please?