Questions about Spring.

[SanadaUjiosan]

It honestly sounds like you're describing a feature RTS has had for over a decade now. Sorry, I think a lot of people are just confused by this. MMORTS implies a still vaguely defined genre that some games are trying to create, but I think none are really succeeding.

You can, if you're wanting useful information, ignore Picasso most of the time. He tends to only say things that make sense either when he is very angry or feeling very kind. Also, possibly sober, which I don't think is often. Aka, Picasso's posts are more for entertainment than info

[Severage]

MMORTS implies a still vaguely defined genre that some games are trying to create, but I think none are really succeeding.

Precisely my man! I've been wanting to make a game for a long time, but no matter what I came up with, the gaming market was saturated with it already.

I've only seen like...three in the past. One of them was shutdown, the other was poorly executed and made 6 years ago (Uses dated graphics, no longer popular, had server trouble etc. etc.), and the last one had severe balancing issues that made many people search for a new game.

It might seem futile or that "I'm dreaming" to try and succeed where teams of people (Instead of...one) put a game together and failed, but I like to think I have a shot. People thought we were dreaming when they talked about going to the moon for the first time, so hey...

But also the reason I can't go into much detail is that I've hardly started working on the game. Obviously, since I'm deciding which engine to use. I'm not precisely sure what I'm going to do in it, so I can't say "This is how it works, this is what it will do, this is how it'll perform".

Anyway, stopping now before I bore ya with a wall of text. I'm notorious for that.

Aka, Picasso's posts are more for entertainment than info

Duly noted...every forum has someone who's insane I guess.

[smoth]

You are miss-using the acronym MMORTS. You mean persistent characters or some other crap.

[PicassoCT]

MMORTS implies a still vaguely defined genre that some games are trying to create, but I think none are really succeeding.

Precisely my man! I've been wanting to make a game for a long time, but no matter what I came up with, the gaming market was saturated with it already.

I've only seen like...three in the past. One of them was shutdown, the other was poorly executed and made 6 years ago (Uses dated graphics, no longer popular, had server trouble etc. etc.), and the last one had severe balancing issues that made many people search for a new game.

It might seem futile or that "I'm dreaming" to try and succeed where teams of people (Instead of...one) put a game together and failed, but I like to think I have a shot. People thought we were dreaming when they talked about going to the moon for the first time, so hey...

But also the reason I can't go into much detail is that I've hardly started working on the game. Obviously, since I'm deciding which engine to use. I'm not precisely sure what I'm going to do in it, so I can't say "This is how it works, this is what it will do, this is how it'll perform".

Anyway, stopping now before I bore ya with a wall of text. I'm notorious for that.

Aka, Picasso's posts are more for entertainment than info

Duly noted...every forum has someone who's insane I guess.

Some have many. Coming in in hordes. Disregarding the huge team effort that went into going for the moon. Overlooking the phailLures. Thinking by just waving a tinyflag on the sidewalk, you supported the cause of going there .

Reality is a harsh misstress. And someone who changes his game concept on the fly, while reading through some board- might never get there. Your journey starts in some seemingly abandoned programtutorial.

There is a) the door- were you can leave, and dream on forever, about how you would do it better.
There is b) the page, the programming which you have to learn sweating and cursing. You know, those guys hanging out here, they are not for a reason absent during those endless gamdesign brainstorming discussion. The mysterious reason:
THEY GET STUFF DONE! Singlehanded, till project ended! Now stop daydreaming in public, your embarassing the species.

And no, he is using MMRGITANIC SOMETHING.. because everything is good, as long as its epic in scale and supports that skycastle.

[Severage]

Yeah I am probably mis-using MMORTS...persistent characters, whatever they are. It was just whatever came up at the time to attempt to illustrate my idea.

Anyway, I think that's all my questions. Thanks for the help everybody.

@Picasso:

[smoth]

Try to avoid buzzwords. Using them errodes your credibility

[PicassoCT]

Yeah I am probably mis-using MMORTS...persistent characters, whatever they are. It was just whatever came up at the time to attempt to illustrate my idea.

Anyway, I think that's all my questions. Thanks for the help everybody.

@Picasso:

And just in case you are the only bird who comes in like this:

http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=72
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... is#p517311
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... is#p504735
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... pt#p479643

All those guys, are pro-modders,(promoters.. dont know about the spelling), have tons of codding experiences, or bigbrothers, a-A-Team.. and all demand lenghty explanations.



Here is how a post looks - by a guy who knows his stuff:

http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... ea+concept
NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE. NOTICE IT! THAT GUY IS SOMEHOW DIFFRENT, AND THAT DIFFERENCE IS WHAT MAKES A REAL GAME.
AND HE GOT IT DONE. IN THE 2 WEEKS, YOU USED TO DREAM ON. HE FUKKING WROTE IT.

Also contacted your brother. This is what he wrote:

"..don't be to harsh on him. We all were like that when we were teenagers, and i did promise to teach him programing..."

Your brother surely didnt sign up for years of unpaid workhours to get a full MMO-RTS. I did that, and therefore earned the right to yell at clueless newcomers. Now get off my lawn!

[zwzsg]

You can, if you're wanting useful information, ignore Picasso most of the time. He tends to only say things that make sense either when he is very angry or feeling very kind. Also, possibly sober, which I don't think is often. Aka, Picasso's posts are more for entertainment than info

While it's true PicassoCT most often speaks in riddles and puns, this time he was rather clear and relevant.

Nuking dreams from orbit is so much easier then realising them.

Nuking: Slang for "destroying"

Dreams: Refers to what Severage is doing now. Severage is not making a game. He is thinking aloud about his dream game.

From Orbit: From distance, from a higher point, detached from the reality of ground work.

easier then realising them: You'll understand the truthness of this one only after you quit your first project.

If you do, the real work, you vannish from the screen, vannish from the scene,

May not be entirely be true, but at least it's a remainder that talking about making a game is distinct from making a game. There are people who will fill whole forums with talk about making a game without making anything, and people who won't say much but release awesome projects.

only to return as a seemingly bitter person

After a while, you might get tired and less enthousiastic.

lazy, whiny self.

The state where the typical wannabe game maker starts in.

Will exchange information against proof of work

There is no point in discussing technical details while we don't even know who you are and what you are capable of.

accept any currency, drawings, value-tables-

You don't need to provide a full working game to prove you're a person capable of doing what he claims he'll do. Even incomplete preliminary works, even half finished game assets, will already show how serious and competent you are.

only not accept currency is dreamed "concept papers"

Writing design doc does not prove ability. Anybody can have ideas and write about them. Doesn't show they'll be able to model, draw, code, nor even fill spread-sheets.

Duly noted...every forum has someone who's insane I guess.

If insane, then only as a the King's Jester might be.

[Severage]

@zwzsg:

Just letting you know that this is not my first project, but thank you for translating Picasso's riddles to me.

The point in this thread was to decide whether or not to use the Engine to build my game on. Whether it becomes reality or not over months of work is my problem; I just wanted to know some simple things about it.

If I'm deciding what engine to use, do you think I have every model and animation rigged and ready to go? I AM, in fact, creating a game. I've made some models, but it's in the preliminary stages. Must I be criticized for being a 'dreamer' that will never get anywhere simply because I haven't already completed a game?

But thanks for your opinion. I'll be sure to not use the forums if I require anything else, sorry for thinking that that's what the forums are for.

[smoth]

I believe what picasso is saying, is that we have LOTS of people who come in with their ideas. It seems to be the new hip thing that ERRYBODY and their brother wants to do an indie game and make it big. Generally people poured out tons of good will and information. Then to see the person never produce something. It becomes very frustrating to make the effort and then see the person leave to produce nothing.

Dunno man, it happens. Like I said, don't use buzzwords, truthfully I sidestepped the thread after I read MMORTS. You could say hey, well that is you. People apparently were put off by your approach as notable by their posts. So if you are wondering why, are many people here jaded and mean? yes. Are you completely blameless? Nope. So don't worry about it, note what you did to evoke the negative response and work on that in the future. Don't focus on feeling like a victim just focus on the informational content which you do have some good posts in here as well! so yeah, chin up.

[zwzsg]

Must I be criticized for being a 'dreamer' that will never get anywhere simply because I haven't already completed a game?

You failed to read that part:

accept any currency, drawings, value-tables-

You don't need to provide a full working game to prove you're a person capable of doing what he claims he'll do. Even incomplete preliminary works, even half finished game assets, will already show how serious and competent you are.

[knorke]

imo just download some game (eg http://balancedannihilation.org/ ) and play some matches. Then try changing the units, starting with simple things: give the commander more health or a different weapon.
It will tell you more about performance of the engine and modding it than anybody cba to post on forum
Stuff like "how long does it take to learn xy" is impossible to answer.

[Severage]

@Smoth:

I can understand that, I guess. Totally truthfully I don't really use 'MMORTS' as what it really means; I'm not trying to revolutionize the gaming industry in a day or something. I just want to make my own little game that I can enjoy.

Point taken.

@zwzsg:

Okay...http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad29 ... 1332918521, http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad29 ... 1332918533, http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad29 ... 1332918528.

Just different views of the same thing. Currently working on a house. It's mostly done, now, but has no texturing and is missing a couple pieces.

@knorke:

As was suggested by other Mods and Developers alike. Seems like the best idea to me. =)

[smoth]

Pretty much what you are doing is evaluating engines, I understand, we have had many fellas like you pass through here.

btw on the model, you are going very high poly.. what is the unit count you would like to have on screen?

[SanadaUjiosan]

Very good dissection zwzsg.

Smoth says it well, a lot in the community are just tired of new ideas coming in and never getting any further. A great example was this guy who showed up with really developed and precise ideas he had for a Dune game. A lot of the most talented people here jumped to help this game out, because let's face it, it looked like it had promise and Dune is really respected, both as a book and RTS! The project soon died off and a lot of people were left feeling irritated.

This really is a community where you have to prove yourself to get recognition.

A bit more on-topic: this gun, is it going to be held by a unit in your game?

[Severage]

It most likely is going to be held by a unit in my game, yes.

As far as units on the map...I would guess at around 100~150 tops? Kind of hard to say right now though.

I am kind of new to this so...how does one find out the poly count of any model?

[Google_Frog]

Maximum unit count is at 32,000 (for others checking this, I just did Spring.Echo(Game.maxUnits)). Again, this is a question answerable by trying a current game.

[PicassoCT]

It most likely is going to be held by a unit in my game, yes.

As far as units on the map...I would guess at around 100~150 tops? Kind of hard to say right now though.

I am kind of new to this so...how does one find out the poly count of any model?

Well, at least you ask precise questions. Many 3d modelling programms have a option to show you how many triangles your modell consists of. Some show them also as quad (four point) which consists of two triangles, so quads are half the triangles.

Now poly means many.. this means a polygon can consist from 3 up to near infinite triangles. So even if you have a program which tells you something about the polys, it also depends about what polys and how many triangles are inside.

[Karl]

Maximum unit count is at 32,000

I thought this is definable by mods/games?

[jK]

5. Spring allows for 32 connected players I think

I thought Auswaschbar upped that to 255 years ago

Maximum unit count is at 32,000

I thought this is definable by mods/games?

Team MaxUnits != Engine MaxUnits (also GaiaTeam can create upto engine max)

I am kind of new to this so...how does one find out the poly count of any model?

Most Spring games have models with 100-1500 polys, but there is no engine limit.