TA Spring needs more impressive graphic

AF · Post by AF » 18 Jan 2006, 20:57

hmm, anyone willing to download a 30MB installer for spring is surely gonna have the willpower to get the goodies.

A lto fo people have released bgi reels of maps that all use the same sort of texture types, yet they ahve yet to sue the tiling feature that exports them all to a common file, so that they have the tile download then the much smaller maps..

I wish spring had trees like that though, and that's an old game now, i see my stepdad playign on his xbox ro my sister on her ps2, and all the trees are sprites, and spring trees are only slightly better than the horrible plus shape sprite arrangement. Yet we have th toosl to create better trees, you dont need alpha, the trees currently are that bad anyways that anything that doesnt look like lego or plastic will do, and other foligage. People are relying too heavily on lighting for atmosphere as smoth said, and they're not using the terrain and features to do it instead.

Since when do all our maps have to be symatrical look alikes with a new texture on the top and a different sun, nothing but ugly default trees, and maybe the odd murky fog.... Yet you can be arsed creating models of crystals and rocks, geovents and maybe the odd tower and pillar.......

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 18 Jan 2006, 21:16

Smoth wrote:... Also alot of people are OVERUSING the tinting feature of
spring. Subtle tint is ok but maps like corrosive pits are awful...

Not all environments are earth-like, or even somewhat earth-like. Using atmospheric settings are part of what makes a map look good (something you say you support), and on the map Corrosive Pits, I intentionally tweaked the atmospherics to make it look the way it did because I wanted the 'alien' environment to be convincing. If you aren't comfortable with truly unearthly environments or atmospheric settings that aren't canned, then I'm sorry to hear that. I thought I was shooting for a little more authenticity there.

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 18 Jan 2006, 21:21

I've got an idea... why dont all these people that put in there time for free stop making things for the game. That way, it will look fine because there be nothing in it to make it look messy. And you can stop complaining about what you dont like.

Oh, wait... then it wouldn't be a game, just a pretty graphics demo...

:: I was joking, i dont mean littraly lets stop... ::

aGorm

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 18 Jan 2006, 22:24

FizWizz wrote:
Smoth wrote:... Also alot of people are OVERUSING the tinting feature of
spring. Subtle tint is ok but maps like corrosive pits are awful...
Not all environments are earth-like, or even somewhat earth-like. Using atmospheric settings are part of what makes a map look good (something you say you support), and on the map Corrosive Pits, I intentionally tweaked the atmospherics to make it look the way it did because I wanted the 'alien' environment to be convincing. If you aren't comfortable with truly unearthly environments or atmospheric settings that aren't canned, then I'm sorry to hear that. I thought I was shooting for a little more authenticity there.

It is not good enough, abuse of environment is not a worthwhile way of executing a feel to a map. It doesn't have authenticity when I am playing and I cannot zoom out and see clearly. I can tell you are a TEEENY bit defensive about it but hey, just my opinion.

It is nothing about a canned environment and you can and will be offended but I always felt that map was a bad one. It is not a point about the "Unearthly environments," it is that the environment OBSCURES the game. The environment needs to be clear enough and NOT make it difficult for the player to play the game. Sure, Venus has a sulfuric atmosphere but you don't see people lining up to play on a map with steady atmospheric damage. Also the strong tinting you used makes it difficult for the player to differentiate teams. When the player has their view obscured by the environment, the environment is poorly designed. It is that reasoning that I was using when I was saying you were abusing the lighting and fog feature.

It is not just YOUR map. Many other maps also abuse this but I used your map as an example

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 19 Jan 2006, 17:30

Holy crap. The SW: Empire at War demo is SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY MEGABYTES. 750. And you complain that my 25 mb map is too huge? Honestly, come off it.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 19 Jan 2006, 17:55

only 2 hrs left ^-^ getright is great

AF · Post by AF » 19 Jan 2006, 20:30

I cant imagine a lighting scheme you could produce for a map that isnt already present on earth currently save extremes of lighting (Such as the whtie map I posted shtos of ages ago that was like an 80's pop video, ro any other variation in colour, at huge intensities).

You cant just stick atmosphere in a map by literally ramping up the tint and fog. You need to be able to look at your map in greyscale with no texture at just the heightmap and say it's pretty, otherwise gameplaywise something is missing from that map, people might say it's pretty but they'll get tired of it quickly.

Be adventurous in your heightmaps, and you get an adventurous map, change the lightbulb and thats all it is, a changed lightbulb.

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 19 Jan 2006, 20:39

aGorm wrote:I've got an idea... why dont all these people that put in there time for free stop making things for the game. That way, it will look fine because there be nothing in it to make it look messy. And you can stop complaining about what you dont like.

Oh, wait... then it wouldn't be a game, just a pretty graphics demo...

:: I was joking, i dont mean littraly lets stop... ::

aGorm

Oh yea, pepole should totaly stop saying what they don't like, that way, EVERYONE get's happy, right?

Well, except those who might not like the suggestion for whatever reson... they will proably be offended that pepole ignore their opinion.

But opinios suck anyway, Right? I mean, you just GOTTA LISEN TO WHAT THEY say, and posibly reply(Well, you have to, since theres a law that says when pepole say something, you can't ignore them for being an idiot. No way around it), and that's, like, SO GAY!

Maybe a better formulation would be "Think twice before you post/flame"?

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 19 Jan 2006, 20:51

btw fiz and all other mappers out there, fog distance should never be set below .4 .3 at the most, but any closer than that and the fog obsures the view from OTA topdown mode.

Agorm,
smoth,
caydr.

Right on the money guys. Right on.

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 20 Jan 2006, 15:55

Obviosly you missed the point of my post Kixxe. It was aimed at pointing out that if you winge and whine at the people that are doing stuff for nothing, then they wont feel like doing it anymore.

Some stuff is crap. Sure, we have to face that fact. But if alot of people just go "ITZ CRAPAS I DONT LIKE IT YOU STINKZ MAKE IT SMALLER" then the guy that worked on it is gonna think "what a twat, hwy am i bothering". Much like no-one forces us to make maps (well... actully some of us are...

) no-one forces you to download a file just cause its big. If you dont want to download someones map, because you think the files to big, then dont. Dont however winge and flame the poor guys map thread, where he's looking for constructive critasims, because he almost certainly wont listen to you, and you'll just piss him off.

If you payed ├é┬ú50 for somthing and it turned out crap you have teh right to take it back and complain.

If you spot somthing you want, dont want to pay the cost (IE: Time) you don't have the right to complain. IF you did it would be a crazy world.

aGorm

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 20 Jan 2006, 18:02

You can't just think that they will be happy with a 20 megabyte extra, witch eqwals a halfhour on ceartin speedes.

They have a reson to complain, even if their a minority. The game being free dosen't change that fact. I would personaly be angry if the maps inceased 40 megabytes, (Witch they won't, right?) since that would mean almost an hour of download. And if that becomes standard, i would have a crapfull of shitty maps that i waited a half hour to get!

Oh, and about forcing. You WANT to make maps, correct? Well, i think they WANT to download and play these maps. If you had a problem, like PSP would take 8 minutes to load, you would be annoyed, right? Offcourse, paint works fine, or? How do you think they feel... and so on and on.

If they had no case, like said something untrue or extremly minor ("I can't handle maps bigger then 2 megs, so stop making em!!").

They do have the right to complain...

Besides, it's still not a big issue... how many really make stupid comments per thread?

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 20 Jan 2006, 19:34

Kixxe wrote:You can't just think that they will be happy with a 20 megabyte extra, witch eqwals a halfhour on ceartin speedes.

ON DAIL-UP maybe... or if the FILESERVER is HORRIBLY SLOW

I do not care if the maps end up being 80->50 megs. Frankly, even if a new map sucks people will likely not play it which means you will not need to download it.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 20 Jan 2006, 19:38

kixxe, there is no way that we can achieve high detail without increasing filesize. There is no way around it.

AF · Post by AF » 20 Jan 2006, 21:22

kixxe, you seme to be having hormone problems lately....... It's ruining the cute vibes I get from that avatar

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 21 Jan 2006, 01:14

maybe he's had his first rejection?

Neuralize · Post by **Neuralize** » 21 Jan 2006, 04:00

I'm willing to bet that almost a forth of the player base is 56k.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 21 Jan 2006, 07:08

http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3534

current numbers <128 kbps (6) 8%
>128 kbps (64) 92%

And that is after about half of the players have voted.

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 21 Jan 2006, 12:29

Kixxe, From the connection speed Thread wrote:Suckiest version of DSL. 56k, that is.

And it costs 30 buck a month! And i can't change to another company, that takes 10 for their slowest! >.<├é┬┤

Edit: Oh, and for the record, 10 megabyte more on a map is only a small annoyance for me... Specaly if the maps go awesome. But more then 10 is a litthe high strung...

Kixxe, this thread, last post wrote:You can't just think that they will be happy with a 20 megabyte extra, witch eqwals a halfhour on ceartin speedes.

They have a reson to complain, even if their a minority. The game being free dosen't change that fact. I would personaly be angry if the maps inceased 40 (*HINT HINT fucking HINT*)megabytes, (Witch they won't, right?) since that would mean almost an hour of download. And if that becomes standard, i would have a crapfull of shitty maps that i waited a half hour to get!

I was just saying that pepole have the right to fucking complain if they want to, even if you think their opinions are crap since their a minioty. I understand that bigger maps are needed, and it's gonna make maps awesome.

I'm just saying that dailup speeds have the right to be angry if they want to, and their opinions are not crap because something is gonna happen that will be very annoying and bad for them. And that aGorm is wrong.

BTW...

aGorm wrote: Some stuff is crap. Sure, we have to face that fact. But if alot of people just go "ITZ CRAPAS I DONT LIKE IT YOU STINKZ MAKE IT SMALLER" then the guy that worked on it is gonna think "what a twat, hwy am i bothering".

That would be true if "alot" of pepole did that... right now, a whipping number of "6" players have said they have a slow connection, and everybody else are not effected. Yea, i'm sure all map makers are gonna go crazy when "6" players choose to voice their opinion, but hey, you always got the other 64 players on your side, right?
Besides, noone has ever used those words, or smilar, in this thread. Where excakly aren't pepole not facing you or other with arguments?

AF · Post by AF » 21 Jan 2006, 17:26

I was just saying that pepole have the right to fucking complain if they want to, even if you think their opinions are crap since their a minioty.

You feel the right to voice complaints loudly and without consideration for tohers, but we have that right too, and people have been exercising such rights to complain about other people complaining.

In the UK, a few decades ago there was a labour PM (I forgot hsi name), and whenever he was speaking in the commons/parliament and someone tried to speak over him, he started speaking quieter, they would all shutup so they could hear what he was saying. Dont mouth off and complain, you're more likely to have an impact if you treat us with respect and behave calmly, toherwise we dismiss you as a raving lunatic, or someone who doesnt knwo what he's talking about.

If you where marketting a product, would you complain to the consumer that they didnt want your product tog et them to want it? Or would you woe them with a good reputation and a stylish fascade?

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 21 Jan 2006, 18:07

AF wrote:
I was just saying that pepole have the right to fucking complain if they want to, even if you think their opinions are crap since their a minioty.
You feel the right to voice complaints loudly and without consideration for tohers, but we have that right too, and people have been exercising such rights to complain about other people complaining.

In the UK, a few decades ago there was a labour PM (I forgot hsi name), and whenever he was speaking in the commons/parliament and someone tried to speak over him, he started speaking quieter, they would all shutup so they could hear what he was saying. Dont mouth off and complain, you're more likely to have an impact if you treat us with respect and behave calmly, toherwise we dismiss you as a raving lunatic, or someone who doesnt knwo what he's talking about.

If you where marketting a product, would you complain to the consumer that they didnt want your product tog et them to want it? Or would you woe them with a good reputation and a stylish fascade?

hm...

Well, more thougt true then aGorm's post. There are diffrent ways of complaining. First we have the profesinal way of "I don't like this, it would put this and this towards a bad path, and it dosen't really solve the problem" or the... "raving lunatic" "who doesnt knwo what he's talking about."... now could i get an example of this "raving lunatic"? I don't really know how to formulate an example.

Kixxe, last post wrote: I'm just saying that dailup speeds have the right to be angry if they want to, and their opinions are not crap because something is gonna happen that will be very annoying and bad for them. And that aGorm is wrong.

To followup on that: -...hat aGorm is wrong when he says: " And you can stop complaining about what you dont like."

Now look. I'm getting tired of repeting myself. I had a bad day. Someone filled my playlist with numa-numa and the muppet intro. If you have more of the same old, refer to my earlyir post's. When you get some new arguments proving whiny dialup users terrorising the community and
posibly planning on murdering map makers that make big maps with a stake-knife, i'll get back to you, and proably agree that such behavior is inapropiete.

Edit: Btw, should't we be discussing any posibole enchantments to grapichs that needed, besides those alredy suggested?

Spring RTS Engine

TA Spring needs more impressive graphic