Gaia. Long.

Gaia. Long.

Here is where ideas can be collected for the skirmish AI in development

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Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Gaia. Long.

Post by Argh »

Yup, I'm still around. Can't help it- I've been messing with my silly Spring mod and breaking the current crop of AIs so much that my other project's falling behind :oops:

For the game design I'd like to bring to Spring... I would, in an ideal world, like to see a really, really robust, moddable and controllable AI, period. Said that, been there, done that, won't bug y'all again until I have some work done in Spring to demonstrate that I am really serious about bringing a new game design to the engine, etc., and am not full of crap.

But, for what I'm going to do with Spring to really work out... I need a fully-functioning and non-black-box Gaia AI. Building what I need will also give us a Gaia that's a lot more interesting than non (or minimally) interactive random creatures on a map, anyhow, so I will make the case that what I want is good for everybody making games with this engine.

Here's what I want.

I want a Gaia AI that will build structures, collect resources, and make units, just like any PvP AI. But... with important differences.

1. The Gaia should be designed so that it is neutral to players (including other AIs) unless they attack it. If attacked, units local to the event start responding... and the Gaia gets more and more "angry" with the offending player, until it becomes actively hostile. Once it is "angry", it should not become neutral again until its "anger level" has dropped quite a bit- iow, it should not be possible to attack it briefly, let it become "not angry" and then attack it again- once it's mad, it should stay mad awhile. Otherwise... it should just go around, building bases, but not fight offensively against players unless it is attacked.

2. The Gaia AI should have certain types of "smart" behaviors that will make it more lifelike. For example... there should be categories of unit that aren't armed, and always run away from attackers. All AIs worth a gosh-darn should probably do that anyhow- builders need to flee assault units unless they're armed. But this Gaia definately needs to do that. Armed units, on the other hand, should be aggressive if the AI becomes "angry", and attack the player's units, if it can see them. Otherwise, the Gaia should probably just leave players alone. Gaia should never, ever "win", except under extreme circumstances (say, walking a Commander into a Gaia city and picking a fight, and then dying).

And... lastly... and this is pretty important... all current PvP AIs should not attack Gaia! They should ignore it! I'm pretty sure they would anyhow, because of the "reserved spot" in Spring's current code, but this is very important, if Gaia is going to be useful and not just something that PvP AIs slaughter like everything else.

So... basically folks... what I am hoping somebody will take an interest in is making an AI that can be used for:

A. Civilian populations, in mods that don't just deal with robotic armies, that could flee from fighting and basically act realistically.
B. Neutral AIs with limited objectives that defend locations but aren't aggressive attackers/builders, ala the AIs in Kohan II.
C. Creatures that could, for example, reproduce by wandering around eating Features to collect the resources they need (iow, they'd be harmless bots that would be able to Reclaim and build copies of themselves or whatever, but wouldn't be able to make new resources- we could, with minimal work, even build whole "ecologies" using one Gaia AI, under this model, with "herbivores", "carnivores", and "plants" that could be really, really interesting).
D. ... and the stuff I intend to do with it, that I'm not going to get into yet, since this is a feature that's necessary for my project to be possible with this game engine. Suffice it to say that if a Gaia can be made that can "get angry" and can have "civilian" and "non-civilian" behaviors depending on the FBI definitions, then it will suffice.

At any rate, I hope that you folks will consider my request. Getting a "neutral side" is another issue. My understanding is that Spring already has a "player" reserved for eventual Gaia AIs, so this should be possible to add- the "only" caveat is that this "player" needs to be add-able via the GUI or a mod scripting call. I will take that up with Zaphod et al at a later point- until a Gaia exists, even a crappy one, it's kind've pointless to make a feature request. Thanks for reading my post.
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krogothe
AI Developer
Posts: 1050
Joined: 14 Nov 2005, 17:07

Post by krogothe »

thats all pretty easy to make but we need that gaia player from the engine, with disabled autotargetting but allowable targetting, spawning, special rules etc.
I wont do it, but its a 5 day job tops to get what you want from an existing AI (including testing etc). If no one else will do it you should be able to within a couple weeks (considering you have zero knowledge of c++).
good to see youre around though, youre a bit crazy but its fun :)
archivis
Posts: 5
Joined: 11 Jan 2006, 03:13

Post by archivis »

Weird. I was just thinking during the middle of a single-player game vs. 3 AAI bots that it'd be nice if the map had indigenous critters to interact with while I was waiting for the bots to do something - anything (in my self-vs-3-AAI bot games one bot always sits and does nothing, it's strange, but I digress).

I was playing on the Egypt map, so I was sort of imagining something Stargate-ish - robot aliens landing and laying waste to those poor Pharoahs.
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AF
AI Developer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Post by AF »

I can imagine making a neutral AI where it emulates 2 seperate factions warring, say tribesmen throwing spears at eachother....
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Argh
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Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Post by Argh »

Yeah, basically... we could do a whole lot of cool stuff with this. I would really like to see more than one "side" for Gaia, or AI "players" that are really neutral, and don't attack players unless attacked. Although there is the question of whether any of the current AI designs could recognize that a Gaia isn't an enemy... etc. This is all stuff that's going to take things getting a lot more advanced than they currently are at this time... I'll wait and see what AF proposes for a common scripting environment for game-designers to finally be able to define some behaviors with reasonable levels of control before I get into this any more...
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AF
AI Developer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Post by AF »

The modability possibilities of NTAI 0.3 are extreme in the most extreme cases, a standard is somethign I'm not sure would be totally defined. I'm looking into interpreters and such though, and maybe I'll have a bsic way of doing what OTA does with weights but with the addd stuff that AAI and OTAI use. Perhaps just meta tags and the modding community can agree on what tags to use, and us AI coders can suggest extra tags ontop specifically for extra cotnrol form our AI's.

That in the end would be a stopgap till I have the next proposal which is proabably going to be lua based.
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