Creating a really huge map

[PicassoCT]

guess its just pathfinding or something like that venturing out to process a unitpath, and never making it back in time. Cant wait all day long for one pewees path, cant we? And actually its the one time, i dont want to point on the devs, saying my usual line "I blame the goverment, blame society, because my prolonged map-e-penis didnt show upon TV."

And i was preposting a coment for the hugemap - that will come anyway. I might as well behave like it is already compiled, posted, played upon and forgotten already. Fast Forward of the board.

Oh, and Forb is right.. there is a sizelimit you have to venture beneath. But way moar entrtaining then the map itself is the idea to see him dancing in pure rage of beeing ignored around the board, mumbling like a manic little devil "I said the truth, i said it, but everybody ignores me, like i have never done a map before, its impossible, but they ignore me, they dont see me, dont see the truth...."

Looking forward to your ragequit forb, will be quite a show. Any plans of rejoining after you ragequit? It doesent have to be permanent, you just arent alllowed to create anything anymoar (Cadyr im lookin at you)

[DarkOppressor]

Forboding Angel: I couldn't care less who I am talking to. Is that supposed to be some kind of reverse ad hominem argument? No, a few of you have been very helpful and decent. A few of you have simply insulted me. For wanting to mess around on my computer. Obviously my response is going to be "bite me." What else would I say?

And I'm not the one who isn't listening. Note that I am NOT trying to find out if the current compilers can compile so large a map anymore. From what I can glean, they cannot. I am now curious how well the engine could handle so large a map (not so well, it seems!) As I stated before in the post YOU ignored, the current compilers limitations are not absolute limitations. I could always just write my own compiler, if I were so inclined, as Spring is open-source. Any time you find yourself saying that something can NEVER be done on a computer, someone will probably try to prove you wrong. That is part of the fun!

Oh, and 32x32 maps are certainly fine, I just played on one (admittedly quite simple) the other day with some people on a LAN. It's one I made a few years back.

Beherith: Here is a link to the 56x28 map I made last night.
And here is the infolog.txt from the CRASH:

Code: Select all

LogOutput initialized.
Spring 0.82.7.1 (0.82.7.1)
Build date/time: Jan  8 2011 00:17:26
Available log subsystems: CollisionVolume, unit, ArchiveScanner, VFS-detail, VFS, Sound
Enabled log subsystems: Sound
Enable or disable log subsystems using the LogSubsystems configuration key
  or the SPRING_LOG_SUBSYSTEMS environment variable (both comma separated).
  Use "none" to disable the default log subsystems.
using configuration source "C:\Program Files (x86)\Kevin\Spring\springsettings.cfg"
[CMyMath::Init] CPU SSE mask: 888, flags:
	SSE 1.0:  1,  SSE 2.0:  1
	SSE 3.0:  1, SSSE 3.0:  0
	SSE 4.1:  0,  SSE 4.2:  0
	SSE 4.0A: 1,  SSE 5.0A: 0
	using streflop SSE FP-math mode, CPU supports SSE instructions
OS: Microsoft Windows
Microsoft Windows 7 Business Edition, 64-bit Service Pack 1 (build 7601)
AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 955 Processor; 4095MB RAM, 8188MB pagefile
OS: emulated 32bit mode
Using read-write data directory: C:\Program Files (x86)\Kevin\Spring\
Scanning: C:\Program Files (x86)\Kevin\Spring\maps
Scanning: C:\Program Files (x86)\Kevin\Spring\base
Scanning: C:\Program Files (x86)\Kevin\Spring\games
Scanning: C:\Program Files (x86)\Kevin\Spring\mods
Supported Video modes: 1680x1050, 1600x1024, 1600x900, 1366x768, 1360x768, 1280x1024, 1280x960, 1280x800, 1280x768, 1280x720, 1152x864, 1024x768, 800x600, 720x576, 720x480, 640x480
Video mode set to 1680x1050/32bit
[f=0000000] SDL:  1.2.10
[f=0000000] GL:   3.3.0
[f=0000000] GL:   NVIDIA Corporation
[f=0000000] GL:   GeForce GTS 250/PCI/SSE2
[f=0000000] GLSL: 3.30 NVIDIA via Cg compiler
[f=0000000] GLEW: 1.5.4
[f=0000000] Joysticks found: 0
[f=0000000] Joystick 0 not found
[f=0000000] Loading startscript from: C:\Program Files (x86)\Kevin\Spring\\script.txt
[f=0000000] Connecting to local server
[f=0000000] Binding UDP socket to IP (v6) :: Port 8452
[f=0000000] [UDPListener] succesfully bound socket on port 8452
[f=0000000] Starting GameServer: 6 ms
[f=0000000] Starting demo recording
[f=0000000] Using map Whole World v5
[f=0000000] Recording demo demos/20110623_035352_Whole World v5_0.82.7.sdf
[f=0000000] [Sound] OpenAL info:
[f=0000000] [Sound]   Vendor:     OpenAL Community
[f=0000000] [Sound]   Version:    1.1 ALSOFT 1.11.753
[f=0000000] [Sound]   Renderer:   OpenAL Soft
[f=0000000] [Sound]   AL Extensions: AL_EXTX_buffer_sub_data AL_EXT_EXPONENT_DISTANCE AL_EXT_FLOAT32 AL_EXT_IMA4 AL_EXT_LINEAR_DISTANCE AL_EXT_MCFORMATS AL_EXT_OFFSET AL_EXTX_sample_buffer_object AL_EXT_source_distance_model AL_LOKI_quadriphonic
[f=0000000] [Sound]   ALC Extensions: ALC_ENUMERATE_ALL_EXT ALC_ENUMERATION_EXT ALC_EXT_CAPTURE ALC_EXT_disconnect ALC_EXT_EFX ALC_EXTX_thread_local_context
[f=0000000] [Sound]                   ALC_EXT_EFX found (required for air absorption): yes
[f=0000000] [Sound]   Device:     DirectSound Software
[f=0000000] [Sound]   Available Devices:  
[f=0000000] [Sound]                       DirectSound Software
[f=0000000] [Sound] air absorption enabled: 0.1
[f=0000000] Using mod Balanced Annihilation V7.50
[f=0000000] Using mod archive ba750.sdz
[f=0000000] Loading client data: 3174 ms
[f=0000000] User number 0 (team 1, allyteam 0)
[f=0000000] [Sound]  parsed 27 sounds from gamedata/sounds.lua
[f=0000000] Loading sounds: 2 ms
[f=0000000] Camera and mouse: 89 ms
[f=0000000] Parsing unit icons
[f=0000000] Loading GameData Definitions
[f=0000000] Loading all definitions:  0.252000
[f=0000000] Loading GameData Definitions: 299 ms
[f=0000000] Parsing Map Information
[f=0000000] Loading SMF
[f=0000000] Loading Map
[f=0000000] Calculating smooth height mesh
[f=0000000] Calculating smooth mesh: 1235 ms
[f=0000000] Number of damage types: 11
[f=0000000] Creating unit textures
[f=0000000] Loading weapon definitions
[f=0000000] Loading unit definitions
[f=0000000] Loading feature definitions
[f=0000000] Initializing map features
[f=0000000] Reading Estimate PathCosts [8]
[f=0000000] Error opening cache\paths\Whole World v53420178355.pe.zip
[f=0000000] Spring 0.82.7.1 (0.82.7.1) has crashed.
[f=0000000] Exception: Access violation (0xc0000005)
[f=0000000] Exception Address: 0x0c953159
[f=0000000] DLL information:
[f=0000000] 0x00400000	spring
[f=0000000] 0x77210000	ntdll
[f=0000000] 0x76300000	kernel32
[f=0000000] 0x74fb0000	KERNELBASE
[f=0000000] 0x10000000	DevIL
[f=0000000] 0x76840000	MSVCRT
[f=0000000] 0x761b0000	ADVAPI32
[f=0000000] 0x75ed0000	sechost
[f=0000000] 0x76410000	RPCRT4
[f=0000000] 0x74900000	SspiCli
[f=0000000] 0x748f0000	CRYPTBASE
[f=0000000] 0x6ea90000	GLU32
[f=0000000] 0x6e2c0000	OPENGL32
[f=0000000] 0x766c0000	GDI32
[f=0000000] 0x74b20000	USER32
[f=0000000] 0x75ec0000	LPK
[f=0000000] 0x76760000	USP10
[f=0000000] 0x6e8c0000	DDRAW
[f=0000000] 0x6eae0000	DCIMAN32
[f=0000000] 0x74ca0000	SETUPAPI
[f=0000000] 0x74c20000	CFGMGR32
[f=0000000] 0x75f50000	OLEAUT32
[f=0000000] 0x75000000	ole32
[f=0000000] 0x76250000	DEVOBJ
[f=0000000] 0x729e0000	dwmapi
[f=0000000] 0x76180000	IMAGEHLP
[f=0000000] 0x6fbc0000	mingwm10
[f=0000000] 0x75160000	SHELL32
[f=0000000] 0x768f0000	SHLWAPI
[f=0000000] 0x76800000	WS2_32
[f=0000000] 0x74a80000	NSI
[f=0000000] 0x61b80000	zlib1
[f=0000000] 0x70780000	vorbisfile
[f=0000000] 0x68140000	ogg
[f=0000000] 0x64cc0000	vorbis
[f=0000000] 0x6b600000	OpenAL32
[f=0000000] 0x74700000	WINMM
[f=0000000] 0x66fc0000	freetype6
[f=0000000] 0x62aa0000	glew32
[f=0000000] 0x00330000	SDL
[f=0000000] 0x7c340000	MSVCR71
[f=0000000] 0x75ef0000	IMM32
[f=0000000] 0x74ed0000	MSCTF
[f=0000000] 0x74740000	dsound
[f=0000000] 0x746d0000	POWRPROF
[f=0000000] 0x76270000	CLBCatQ
[f=0000000] 0x71600000	MMDevApi
[f=0000000] 0x716e0000	PROPSYS
[f=0000000] 0x728e0000	wdmaud
[f=0000000] 0x72920000	ksuser
[f=0000000] 0x6eb70000	AVRT
[f=0000000] 0x6eb30000	AUDIOSES
[f=0000000] 0x6eb20000	msacm32
[f=0000000] 0x6eb00000	MSACM32
[f=0000000] 0x6eaf0000	midimap
[f=0000000] 0x73200000	profapi
[f=0000000] 0x72a00000	uxtheme
[f=0000000] 0x69500000	nvoglv32
[f=0000000] 0x6ea60000	DINPUT
[f=0000000] 0x6ead0000	HID
[f=0000000] 0x74af0000	WINTRUST
[f=0000000] 0x75fe0000	CRYPT32
[f=0000000] 0x74fa0000	MSASN1
[f=0000000] 0x72f70000	mswsock
[f=0000000] 0x72f50000	wship6
[f=0000000] 0x72f60000	wshtcpip
[f=0000000] 0x72ca0000	dbghelp
[f=0000000] Stacktrace:
[f=0000000] (0) Unknown [0x0C953159]

Looks like it went kerblewie on pathing stuff.

EDIT: And "newfag" is not a word in any dictionary that I know of, so I guess you've got me there.

PicassoCT: I haven't succeeded yet!

Everyone: I should mention that I don't care if this is fun for anyone aside from myself, and I don't REALLY care at this point if it even works in Spring. I just want to do it. You know, for fun? So trying to tell me it is impossible when it isn't won't stop me. Of course, I may well get bored before I succeed, so no promises!

[PicassoCT]

The pathing of the righteous bot is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil obsticles. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of distress, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy My brothers waypoints. And you will know My name is the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon thee.

[smoth]

56x28
->10
46x38
->4
42x42

not really pushing the 64x boundary.

[Kloot]

Would Spring actually load a 64x64 map

It would and it does (given enough contiguous free memory), as well as your 56x28 "Whole World" map: http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/6114/screen00001.png

There are also no hardcoded limits in any mapconv version, it all depends on the OS-policy for user processes/libstdc++ implementation.

[PicassoCT]

Fine, i will change my advice.. you need linux to compile your maps. Now thats a way to scare off the megalunatics, like myself.

:D

[knorke]

everybody calm the fuck down?
if you use words like "you don't understand" or large red text at least be sure to include something usefull in your post.
bonus points if its also correct.

[Forboding Angel]

I'm not mad. Why does everyone think I'm mad? Just because I use giant red text to force attention on what is being said? Maybe I should have made the entire post like that then...

[Forboding Angel]

Jesus this guy doesn't pay attention to shit...

Dude, you asked snoop if it had been done. It has not and cannot be done without a different compiler.

I was well aware of the fact that you were talking about whether it could be done if you made your own compiler. I also alluded to that as well. I also stated in the same paragraph that it was not possible with the current tools. Ffs.

[DarkOppressor]

Would Spring actually load a 64x64 map

It would and it does (given enough contiguous free memory), as well as your 56x28 "Whole World" map: http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/6114/screen00001.png

There are also no hardcoded limits in any mapconv version, it all depends on the OS-policy for user processes/libstdc++ implementation.

Awesome, thanks. Are the different mapconv versions written by random people, or just compiled from an official source, or what? I poked around in the Spring git repo, but I couldn't find it if it's there.

[Forboding Angel]

The original mapconv was written by one of the yankspankers, but it sucked donkeyballs. So mother did some work to it and added some functionality. Many years went by and 5 years later beherith decided to take a stab at it, found the sauce, compiled it, made mapconv not suck anymore.

Regardless of what kloot says, mothers mapconv is limited to TGA, BMP, and JPG formats. The jpg format as a total pixel ability of 30k x 30k. And mothers mapconv will crash the moment you try to feed it a file over 500mb.

Beherith's mapconv will crash if you try to feed it anything over 40x40 (in spring map size).

[DarkOppressor]

Just loaded up Spring in Linux and now I can load the 56x28 map, too.

So, are none of the current compilers open-source? And regardless, do they have Linux builds I could play with?

[Forboding Angel]

Afaik mapconv is GPL, but I'm pretty sure that there is no compiler for *nix.

[Kloot]

The original mapconv was written by one of the yankspankers, but it sucked donkeyballs. So mother did some work to it and added some functionality. Many years went by and 5 years later beherith decided to take a stab at it, found the sauce, compiled it, made mapconv not suck anymore.

There were other people after mother who worked on or forked it before Beherith, user being one.

The jpg format as a total pixel ability of 30k x 30k.

Wrong. (http://class.ee.iastate.edu/ee528/Readi ... Format.pdf, http://www.fileformat.info/format/jpeg/egff.htm)

And mothers mapconv will crash the moment you try to feed it a file over 500mb.

Beherith's mapconv will crash if you try to feed it anything over 40x40 (in spring map size).

Again, platform-dependant.

So, are none of the current compilers open-source?

https://github.com/spring/MapConv is the "official" mapconv repository (this does not include any of Beherith's changes though).

And regardless, do they have Linux builds I could play with?

Nope, none publically available at least.

[Forboding Angel]

The original mapconv was written by one of the yankspankers, but it sucked donkeyballs. So mother did some work to it and added some functionality. Many years went by and 5 years later beherith decided to take a stab at it, found the sauce, compiled it, made mapconv not suck anymore.

There were other people after mother who worked on or forked it before Beherith, user being one.

None of them were really noteworthy, and none of us used them, so I didn't particularly figure that they mattered. Iirc, Deci messed with mapconv code at some point.

The jpg format as a total pixel ability of 30k x 30k.

Wrong. (http://class.ee.iastate.edu/ee528/Readi ... Format.pdf, http://www.fileformat.info/format/jpeg/egff.htm)

Interesting, It's a limitation of photoshop then. I wouldn't be shocked if gimp had the same issue.

And mothers mapconv will crash the moment you try to feed it a file over 500mb.

Beherith's mapconv will crash if you try to feed it anything over 40x40 (in spring map size).

Again, platform-dependant.

This is not platform independent. Any old mapper can tell you that. It crashes on my current rig which is 8gb ddr3 + 2gb readyboost and 2 4gb pagefiles. It is not dependent upon platform. Maybe it isn't supposed to crash on 500+mb files, but it does, consistently and every time no matter who does it (This is mothers Mapconv we are talking about). I used mothers mapconv for many many years on tons of maps. Believe me when i say that I know this for a fact.

So, are none of the current compilers open-source?

https://github.com/spring/MapConv is the "official" mapconv repository (this does not include any of Beherith's changes though).

Mapconv has a repo? News to me. I used to wonder where people were getting the sauce from. Does behe have a repo set up for his? Cause if not, we need to light a fire under his ass to do it. It would be a damn shame (I.E. Devastating) if any of that code were lost.

[AF]

You should probably use a 64bit version of photoshop if it crashes above 30kx30k (suspiciously close to MAX_INT on 32bit ).

Also Mapconv did indeed have a limit to mapsize, or at least the version SJ wrote. This meant maps of the current format built in the early days of spring could not exceed a size that was somewhere between 52x52 and 64x64.

HOWEVER, during the days of Tobis initial port, mapconv was modified by someone to remove this restriction ( it appeared it was a limitation of mapconv and not the format itself, eitherway 32bit values were implicated ). This occurred at least 4-5 years ago.

Beyond that point 4 or 5 years ago, I cannot make any claim or fact beyond saying Deci and Mother have meddled with mapconv and Beherith fixed the scanlines bug.

[AF]

If you want a MASSIVE map, you could always try SM3, though I'm sure many people will grumble, and you won't have the nicest of times. In my test maps I got a 128x128 SM3 map, I'd have gone farther but my 2GB machine lacked the free memory to load bigger SM3 maps

[Forboding Angel]

Sm3 prolly won't load on ATI. Does it even still work? Last time I tried Narrow Passage, it crashed.

Also, wrt filesize limitation... I don't think that behe's brand of mapconv has a filesize limit, but I do know from experience that on anything larger than 42ishx42ish it will crash. And the old mapconv, more or less the same problem. It just isn't doable with what we have. I have literally tried for weeks to make massive maps and it just won't happen. Even with completely flat maps, it falls down at a little over 40x40.

[AF]

hmmm maybe someone can debug a run of beheriths mapconv? I could always give it a quick try if someone sent me the source files and the command line parameters to use to test with, beheriths mapconv source is in the repo isnt it?

[hoijui]

https://github.com/spring/MapConv is the "official" mapconv repository (this does not include any of Beherith's changes though).