Unlocks and experienced players - Page 4

Unlocks and experienced players

A dynamic game undergoing constant development and refinement, that attempts to balance playability with fresh and innovative features.

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Saktoth
Zero-K Developer
Posts: 2665
Joined: 28 Nov 2006, 13:22

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by Saktoth »

Every unit is -viable- and has a role in the game. Not every unit is -essential- or you'd have to build every factory every game.

Most factories are balanced so that the units in it can counter any other unit from any other factory. Every factory has a riot, artillery, raider, etc. You can win with just one factory fairly easily. Some things are more efficient counters, factories have strong and weak points, but you'll always have something cost effective in your arsenal against any tactic.

The only factories that really have big vulnerabilities are the unlockable ones- say, athena screws you over if the enemy rushes a fighter and the tank factory is very vulnerable to raiders. But these are very specialized (usually secondary) factories.
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smoth
Posts: 22306
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by smoth »

I am going to keep asking about the GOLDEN MORTY
Saktoth
Zero-K Developer
Posts: 2665
Joined: 28 Nov 2006, 13:22

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by Saktoth »

Unfortunately smoth, the morty shoots slowbeams now (Yeah, we are awful, ruined it, etc). Double slowbeam doesnt make much sense.
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Licho
Zero-K Developer
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Joined: 19 May 2006, 19:13

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by Licho »

It could fire doubleslowbeam
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bobthedinosaur
Blood & Steel Developer
Posts: 2695
Joined: 25 Aug 2004, 13:31

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by bobthedinosaur »

please unlock more heterosexual rewards, because if we tried all the possibilities we'd just be communists:
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smoth
Posts: 22306
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by smoth »

Licho wrote:It could fire doubleslowbeam
:)
j5mello
Posts: 1189
Joined: 26 Aug 2005, 05:40

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by j5mello »

do you get any experience for losing? or is it still just for winning?
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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
Posts: 4344
Joined: 22 Sep 2007, 09:51

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by hoijui »

i also dislike the morty! :D
it is indeed ruined!!!!1
nah its ok ;-)
i guess we just think so cause morty plus golden morty were really one of the coolest things in the past.
but please turn of the shoot animation of the morty, it makes no sense for a laser.
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Neddie
Community Lead
Posts: 9406
Joined: 10 Apr 2006, 05:05

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by Neddie »

j5mello wrote:do you get any experience for losing? or is it still just for winning?
When I played you got a much smaller amount of experience for losing, and I hope it is still that way.
luckywaldo7
Posts: 1397
Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 04:36

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by luckywaldo7 »

Losers get around 80% the xp that the winners get. Playing in a smaller team gives more xp than playing in a larger team (so 1v1 gives the most xp), and I think there are small xp bonuses for getting awards.

You can also get small amounts of xp playing against chicken or bots.
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Pxtl
Posts: 6112
Joined: 23 Oct 2004, 01:43

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by Pxtl »

Make the golden morty fire slow beam *and* a laser.
Saktoth
Zero-K Developer
Posts: 2665
Joined: 28 Nov 2006, 13:22

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by Saktoth »

We could model swap the hammer and morty, and add a golden hammer. (Or ditch the hammer model entirely and find something else). It is so light and gets vulnerable to AoE so fast that a double-hammer is probably actually not a terrible addition to the game. If this isnt all just unnecessarily confusing.

Of course i also sort of wanted to make a spherehammer *dodges thrown projectiles*
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smoth
Posts: 22306
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by smoth »

lol golden hammer.
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Neddie
Community Lead
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Joined: 10 Apr 2006, 05:05

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by Neddie »

Saktoth wrote:Of course i also sort of wanted to make a spherehammer
At least you weren't alone in that impulse. :-)

Don Smoth: Hand over that golden hammer!
Licho: But this is a slowing robot.
Don Smoth: Slowing robot! Know thou not what this really is?
The Golden Hammer of Spring!
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1v0ry_k1ng
Posts: 4656
Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

double slowbeam = stopbeam?
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Pxtl
Posts: 6112
Joined: 23 Oct 2004, 01:43

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by Pxtl »

Saktoth wrote:We could model swap the hammer and morty, and add a golden hammer. (Or ditch the hammer model entirely and find something else). It is so light and gets vulnerable to AoE so fast that a double-hammer is probably actually not a terrible addition to the game. If this isnt all just unnecessarily confusing.

Of course i also sort of wanted to make a spherehammer *dodges thrown projectiles*
One of the things on my never-going-to-do-list (after I make new factions for KP, design my own Star Control 2 spring-game, and finish remodeling my bathroom) is new model for the cloakable spherebots (and an arachnid variant for the cloakable spiders) so that you can have a *second* model in the Cloakybot lab. Something skinny and elegant and dark so you can have the spearbot, rector, mobile-cloak, and sniper look like a little family the way their non-cloakable brothers do.
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Nixa
Posts: 350
Joined: 05 Oct 2006, 04:32

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by Nixa »

I don't really get the unlock thing.

For one, if it's only 3 hours till you get 90% then noobs won't learn squat, in fact the mere fact they've unlocked something will probably make them feel it's better so they'll use it more often than core units and you'll achieve the opposite effect (until they learn).
For two, if it's 3 hours I have to grind away it I just won't bother (and as much as I want to I really can't be bothered...) - stuff like not being able to build anti etc when the enemy can build nuke is just -.-'
That feeling seems to be shared with a few others that have been playing spring for 6+ years here (ofcourse most ZK's are new players so it probably has little effect).

I dunno just my 2c
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Blackdutchie
Posts: 71
Joined: 12 Mar 2009, 20:41

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by Blackdutchie »

Nixa wrote:I don't really get the unlock thing.

For one, if it's only 3 hours till you get 90% then noobs won't learn squat, in fact the mere fact they've unlocked something will probably make them feel it's better so they'll use it more often than core units and you'll achieve the opposite effect (until they learn).
For two, if it's 3 hours I have to grind away it I just won't bother (and as much as I want to I really can't be bothered...) - stuff like not being able to build anti etc when the enemy can build nuke is just -.-'
That feeling seems to be shared with a few others that have been playing spring for 6+ years here (ofcourse most ZK's are new players so it probably has little effect).

I dunno just my 2c
This right here demonstrates how much you know NOTHING about the system.
Nuke is the one that's locked, not anti. Please research more thoroughly and call us back when you have a clue.
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Nixa
Posts: 350
Joined: 05 Oct 2006, 04:32

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by Nixa »

Your right, I haven't played ZK since well, it was called CA (because of the unlock system). I may not remember correctly with the nuke but back then I believe at some version that was a possible situation.

The rest of the post stands though (considering it has no reference to any particular units). But I'll assume you'll ignore it
luckywaldo7
Posts: 1397
Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 04:36

Re: Unlocks and experienced players

Post by luckywaldo7 »

The unlocks were mostly designed by Google Frog and King Raptor afair, and they were extremely careful not to lock anything that would upset balance.

The bulk of unlocking is spent on custom commander modules, not on unlocking units. Of the locked units, most of the xp is in the very expensive newb-trap range, bertha and bantha and nuke and so forth, but especially starlight, detriment, and DRP.

Only a tiny amount of xp is required to lock units that could be seen regularly, and they are all generally less crucial but more interesting units. For example, the scythe in the cloaky bot factory is locked. But it functions as a raider, which is a role already covered by glaive in the same factory. But it happens to be heavier and come with a personal cloak, not to mention use a melee weapon. So while it has a unique interesting role, when it is locked it doesn't leave a gap in the raider role.

So everything needed to win is allowed to you right from the start. Requiring people to grind in order to get absolutely necessary units like anti-nuke, or an artillery unit, or the like, would ruin the balance of the game, and ruin Zero-K as an RTS game.

If you tried it out even for just lulz your 2c could be worth a lot more. :)
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