ModOption "Unlock Mode" suggestions

[TheFatController]

Hi

I know announcing stuff too early is usually a bad idea cause I might get half way though this then decide it's crap or hit some horrible engine limitation HOWEVER...!

I've started writing a mod option called "Unlock Mode", the general gist of it will be:
- You start with a limited amount of units you can build, mex, solar, wind, veh plant, kbot plant, llt, AK, Peewee, jeffy, weasel.
- You unlock extra build options by doing STUFF.

An example of how you could unlock stuff (illustrative only!):
- Building 5 scouts unlocks the flash tank
- Capturing 8 metal spots unlocks metal storage
- Doing 15,000 damage to enemy units unlocks the HLT
- Capturing all metal spots on the map unlocks moho mex's for all teams
- Building 20 tech2 combat units unlocks fusion plant (but need to add incentive so people dont just build and reclaim them..)

The idea here is that you force people to play in a certain way which is more fun

So if anyone has any suggestions on what could unlock what or ways of unlocking stuff or ideas to make this more fun please let me know (not too interested in 2 page 'state of BA' rants about dsd etc, take them elsewhere)

Thanks

[zwzsg]

The idea here is that you force people to play in a certain way which is more fun

It is not "more fun", but it could help newbie not getting lost.

[knorke]

will requirements be permanent or will you be able to build and reclaim?
for inspiration maybe see micron wars with their outpost things.
imo unlocks should be a decision you make, an investment (ie a geo vent) and not something that you build anyway (ie certain number of mex)

[Wombat]

sounds interesting. always something different. few buildings/units, like for example krog, ddm etc could be allowed to make only once. for example, to make krog, u need 10 shivas, then krog is unlocked. when u make one, its locked again ~ loop.

[AF]

Rename to training/tutorial mod?

[knorke]

i think he wants it to make gameplay more stragetic/whatever and not as tutorial?
For tutorial a widget would be better, like CA's nubtron or KP's tip dispenser.

Code: Select all

if metalincome < 100 and player_makes_krogoth then say "lol you are doing it wrong"

[PicassoCT]

The idea is good, but if you make mission&objective based gameplay please dont slide into the morpg "Bring me the fur of twenty criterions." Those are the most dull and anoying missions there could be. Why not instead make something really tricky... for example stun and nap this enemy unit...
...etcetera...

but the idea is ultrakill.

[Ares]

Have you considered making the unlock tree tailored, roughly, to what a "solid" BA build order might resemble? That way its a fun mod+informative at the same time. As an early example for structures: unlocking solars after placing 2 mex and unlocking adv solar after placing 8 solars. As doing anything else would probably have a negative effect to your opening play initially it wouldn't matter if unlocks were relatively linear - at least until you get your first factory.

Another idea, having overarching unlock classes for "final destination" super-weapons - so from the unlocked enemy units you can see you might be able to judge your opponent's ultimate plan. For example, unlocks required for:

Nuke- missile bot+missile vehicle+tac missile launcher

Big Bertha-t1 mobile arty, hammer, guardian, t2 mobile arty, t2 long range cannon turret (+tremor for buzzsaw)

Experimental Gantry - unlock every kbot

[Blackdutchie]

This seems like a terribly restrictive modoption. (from the ideas of the people who have posted before me)
(this may seem ironic coming from a player who mostly plays ZK, but please let me explain)

Restricting what a player can build until a player has built the "right" BA buildorder will prevent experimentation and unorthodox building orders.
Example:
I have a buddy, with whom i have decided to cooperate strategically. He will provide economic structures while i rush out a lab. We will instantly build 5 flash tank, then build constructors to power our push. We will defend our push with the flash tanks, to quickly get an HLT up in a strategic location.

Above idea's considering buildorder would stop this from being a possible strategy, by for example requiring a player to build 2 mexes, then solars, and only then unlocking labs, or requiring jeffies to build flash tanks, or LLT's to build an HLT.

My point is, you could lock units away, but don't let the requirements for those units be "You have to play the game the right way first", this severly cripples people who want to experiment.
A positive example of locked units is probably NOTA, where there are t1.5 units in the t1 labs, which are unlocked as you build the t2 structures. These t1.5 units are upgraded versions of normal t1 units.
(for example the warrior, which in NOTA is a sturdier peewee with more DPS, and the phoenix, which is traditionally available in t2 factories, has been moved into the t1 factory and is t1.5-locked.)

Another problem is possibly smaller games, where a player wants to switch paths. A situation will present itself where the player's choice to pursue Kbots is now no longer desirable, and this player wants to pursue airlab. He needs bombers, and he needs them fast, he quickly build a t2- Oh wait, you first need to build 5 scouts, then 10 normal bombers, that's too bad.


(TL;DR: Unlocks sound like an interesting idea, but care must be put in maintaining flexibility and one must be wary of restricting the player to a "right way of playing", as humans are unique and may pursue different buildorders under different circumstances)

[Aero]

Dutchie, I agree and disagree with you at the same time.

Agreed: This would keep unorthodox and unique players from experimenting with new tactics. I personally enjoy trying strange, new tactics (such as the combat engineer drop) and this would severely limit my ability to do that.

Disagreed: You forget that the enemy would have to play by these rules as well, and he will be stuck in whatever path he chooses, so a situation immediately warranting a change of unit type would be unlikely if just 1v1 or 2v2.

Agreed again: In team games however, said scenario would occur, and a sudden change of plans would be quite necessary.

[Wombat]

BAnet wars !

[yanom]

This seems like a terribly restrictive modoption.

It does.

[Google_Frog]

The idea here is that you force people to play in a certain way which is more fun

Which people? To me your statement could mean 2 things:

• A tutorial
• Preventing unfun stratergies

If it is for a tutorial think you would be better off only applying the system to new players, this would be done with a widget and act as a hints/tutorial mode. Of course the widget could be disabled.

Or you could mean to stop unfun stratergies. As in force all players to use sub-optimal builds because the optimal builds are very effective but not fun (although fun is subjective). For example if there was a building the commander could build for about 100m that instantly won the game constructing this building would be the optimum strategy. But not many people would find this fun. Anyway if you are trying to prevent a powerful yet unfun strategy I think you should be able to find a cleaner method than locking units throughout the game.

Here is one example that should apply to BA and I cannot understand why it has not been bought up. Basically if you build a factory that an ally has already built nearby you have wasted the cost of the factory, you could have assisted their factory and used the resources for something else. But not having units is generally not fun which is why ZK has your first factory produced for no cost.