Decline in the number of players
Moderator: Moderators
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luckywaldo7
- Posts: 1398
- Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 04:36
Re: Decline in the number of players
Games are way more than models. There are animations, sounds, particle effects, 2D art, interface, coding, etc.
Re: Decline in the number of players
ye but u have put content creators together with devs >> thx for reminding tho.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: Decline in the number of players
In desura, you can install and play evo with a single click. Maybe 2.knorke wrote:, has just installed surpreme commander using steam with 3 clicks,
Knorke, you've been a real asshole and an inaccurate one regarding evo in this thread. I'm starting to get quite irritated about it, but since you prolly aren't going to shut it anytime soon...
Evo has more or less broken away from spring in distribution. What that means is, if you are in linux, you install the ppa from launchpad. Has nothing spring related in it (unless you count the spring build info on the loading screen), is evo themed everything (thanks koshi) and the entire process is pretty much automated. Koshi and I worked for weeks on this stuff getting it ready to go and making sure that the linux build and the windows builds behaved correctly.
Linux is being done through launchpad, and windows is being done through desura. The whole reason for that not officially released shit and the rapid crap is to scare away clueless newbs who might think that it really is that simple, when it isn't. Desura will change all that. A single click will install the game from the website. All the graphics options are set automatically and there will be 0 need to do anything but register a nick (in the oh so pretentious and up it's own arse "EvoLobby") and play.
Moreover, the linux and windows builds may or may not be using a current version of spring at any given time, but will always sync with each other.
Current spring users aren't being completely shoved out into the cold... you can still get it via rapid or packages.springrts.com/builds , but I am not focusing on current spring users. I never was.
Thanks to koshi, launchpad and desura, I can finally break free of the ball and chain that is the engine when it comes to distribution and community.
The reason you haven't seen anything on the website about desura, knorke, is because it hasn't been final approved yet (which is fine with me because I've been adding features like crazy). I was informed when i submitted it that the approval process could take up to a month, so I'm not sweating it. The finished product that me and koshi came up with is butter smooth and is completely automated. The users don't have to do a damn thing except click play.
So, in closing, I would appreciate it if you would stop spreading bullshit. It's very frustrating and I've been keeping my cool about it so far.
It's worth noting that the setup that koshi and I have (made possible by koshi of course) should be fairly easy to replicate for other games. We had a fun time hunting down all the bugs and it isn't until you do something like this that you see the giant tarpit that epitomizes "Spring-ism", but in spite of it all, I could probably have someone ready to rock with a winbloze distribution in a day or so of me helping explain stuff and how it all works. Anyone who knows me at all, knows that I like easy replication from which everyone can benefit.
Re: Decline in the number of players
Tl,dr;
ProForb - this is how its done,son!
ProForb - this is how its done,son!
Re: Decline in the number of players
Please tell me where i am writing wrong about any of your stuff? (springinfo and evorts)
You write yourself about the
And if you have wrong links on springinfo, like http://spring1944.com/s44/ , then sorry but you are contributing to the tarpit.
There is something about desura on the evo website: A news post. And I commentated on how it was a bad news post because it did not even link to the desura homepage.
Please read accurately and you will see I did not attack you, but just pointed out errors.
Anyway, it seems you are more interessting in "defending" then fixing even the simple ones, like the links on springinfo.
You write yourself about the
Right now, I still see evo sitting in there and imo that is why your visitor numbers do not translate to player numbers.giant tarpit that epitomizes "Spring-ism"
And if you have wrong links on springinfo, like http://spring1944.com/s44/ , then sorry but you are contributing to the tarpit.
Wat?The reason you haven't seen anything on the website about desura, knorke, is because it hasn't been final approved yet
There is something about desura on the evo website: A news post. And I commentated on how it was a bad news post because it did not even link to the desura homepage.
Please read accurately and you will see I did not attack you, but just pointed out errors.
Anyway, it seems you are more interessting in "defending" then fixing even the simple ones, like the links on springinfo.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: Decline in the number of players
Springinfo is a news aggregator, I don't touch the site... it runs itself. I was not aware that any of the links were wrong.
You're harping on stuff that won't be around much longer with Evo.. e.g. rapid.zip, Windows current download instructions, etc. Posting from my phone so short.
edit: (from computer so i can properly respond)
Apparently you are trying to help. All I've seen in this thread is you complaining about how everyone is doing it wrong. It's not like the engine gives us any choice, and I haven't seen you proposing any suggestions on how to make it better.
@springinfo link... so what, one link was wrong. You could have pm'ed it to me. I have more shit to do than constantly monitor everything. I fixed it as soon as I found out and had access to a computer.
@giant tarpit... Knorke, Ask anyone who has been around for any significant amount of time... I've been the main person trying to get us out of the tarpit for YEARS (that's not to say many other's ahven't done their own thing, but I'm the one that has been the most vocal and willing to try 15 bazillion stunts to make it happen)!
Actually if you bothered to look at the rapid.zip dl count for evo, it's up at right around 1000. That's 1000 players I couldn't retain because of spring itself. Do you really think I am HAPPY about that??? Seriously? And you think that you can fix it, regardless of my years of attempts and failures?
As I said, apparently you're trying to help, so I'm cutting you some slack.
yes I could have linked to the desura site. but what I really wanted to do was link to the evo profile on the desura site. On snap, I can't! Because I'm the only person who can see it!
Did I know it would take this long to get approved? I was told that it would take a good long while, but I dunno how much I believe it would take that full amount of time.
Re: The evo site
Well it helps if you stop trying to approach it from a stance of illiteracy. From the front page you can find out that:
100% Free RTS Gaming! - Evo is an rts game and it is totally free
From the featured video you can see what the game is like
you can see that a new version has come out, evo is trying to get on desura and that the site has been fully integrated with google friend connect.
from the front page you can find pictures, about the game, the backstory, the forums, the bug reporter, where to download it, and where to find out how to play it
This is all without even clicking anything or scrolling!
Ok so lets scroll down.
Oh hay, more news.
Oh hay, the latest topics form the forum with a pretty lengthy excerpt
Oh hay, look what I found!
OHAY! It's a list featured content (which is actually code for "this is what people clicked on the most")
Sarcasm aside, I dunno how you could manage to miss the possibly most prominent thing on every single page...
The fucked up part is, none of this is even relevant. You're just being a jerk because you can and forcing everyone else to try to defend what they have worked so hard on.
Let me know when you have dumped 5+ years of your life into the engine. 3+ of that into making your own game. and 2+ into coming up with a decent system for handling updates and easy installs. Then come back and tell me a bunch of shit I don't already know.
Why can't I convert website visitors into players?
(I in this case referring to myself, not a theoretical other person)
Easy. The install process (on windows) sucks dick. The linux install process is epicly smooth. That's why I've spent so much time working on the desura shit, and game documentation and everyhting else... so I can provide a smooth user experience. You really think I can add all kind of new shit to the game on an almost daily basis, manage a site the the upteenth degree, and write in and out of game manuals and instruction, AND work my fucking dick into the dirt on an easy and smooth customized install that doesn't have fucking spring shat all over it overnight?
Hey, I've got a good fucking idea, why don't you offer to help me, so I can get it done FASTER! Or maybe you forgot that I'm doing all this shit not only to have it for myself but also for you guys so that you can do it in the future without all the pain and suffering that I went through...
But no, you're right, I'm a jerk and a dick because I don't have time to moan about the fact that the word desura isn't linked to the desura site and people might actually have to google it. Pfft.
You're harping on stuff that won't be around much longer with Evo.. e.g. rapid.zip, Windows current download instructions, etc. Posting from my phone so short.
edit: (from computer so i can properly respond)
Apparently you are trying to help. All I've seen in this thread is you complaining about how everyone is doing it wrong. It's not like the engine gives us any choice, and I haven't seen you proposing any suggestions on how to make it better.
@springinfo link... so what, one link was wrong. You could have pm'ed it to me. I have more shit to do than constantly monitor everything. I fixed it as soon as I found out and had access to a computer.
@giant tarpit... Knorke, Ask anyone who has been around for any significant amount of time... I've been the main person trying to get us out of the tarpit for YEARS (that's not to say many other's ahven't done their own thing, but I'm the one that has been the most vocal and willing to try 15 bazillion stunts to make it happen)!
Actually if you bothered to look at the rapid.zip dl count for evo, it's up at right around 1000. That's 1000 players I couldn't retain because of spring itself. Do you really think I am HAPPY about that??? Seriously? And you think that you can fix it, regardless of my years of attempts and failures?
As I said, apparently you're trying to help, so I'm cutting you some slack.
yes I could have linked to the desura site. but what I really wanted to do was link to the evo profile on the desura site. On snap, I can't! Because I'm the only person who can see it!
Did I know it would take this long to get approved? I was told that it would take a good long while, but I dunno how much I believe it would take that full amount of time.
Re: The evo site
Well it helps if you stop trying to approach it from a stance of illiteracy. From the front page you can find out that:
100% Free RTS Gaming! - Evo is an rts game and it is totally free
From the featured video you can see what the game is like
you can see that a new version has come out, evo is trying to get on desura and that the site has been fully integrated with google friend connect.
from the front page you can find pictures, about the game, the backstory, the forums, the bug reporter, where to download it, and where to find out how to play it
This is all without even clicking anything or scrolling!
Ok so lets scroll down.
Oh hay, more news.
Oh hay, the latest topics form the forum with a pretty lengthy excerpt
Oh hay, look what I found!
Ohhay, it's a sitemap! Goody!About
Evolution RTS was created by Ben Woods and is currently developed by Forboding Angel (Ben Woods) as well as KaiserJ and the official development team members. In addition, various developers from the Spring Project community have contributed in many ways.
The game revolves around fast thinking and micro-management as well as macro-management gameplay. Evolution RTS is free for download and play, boasting superb effects and visuals as well as very solid gameplay.
OHAY! It's a list featured content (which is actually code for "this is what people clicked on the most")
Sarcasm aside, I dunno how you could manage to miss the possibly most prominent thing on every single page...
The fucked up part is, none of this is even relevant. You're just being a jerk because you can and forcing everyone else to try to defend what they have worked so hard on.
Let me know when you have dumped 5+ years of your life into the engine. 3+ of that into making your own game. and 2+ into coming up with a decent system for handling updates and easy installs. Then come back and tell me a bunch of shit I don't already know.
Why can't I convert website visitors into players?
(I in this case referring to myself, not a theoretical other person)
Easy. The install process (on windows) sucks dick. The linux install process is epicly smooth. That's why I've spent so much time working on the desura shit, and game documentation and everyhting else... so I can provide a smooth user experience. You really think I can add all kind of new shit to the game on an almost daily basis, manage a site the the upteenth degree, and write in and out of game manuals and instruction, AND work my fucking dick into the dirt on an easy and smooth customized install that doesn't have fucking spring shat all over it overnight?
Hey, I've got a good fucking idea, why don't you offer to help me, so I can get it done FASTER! Or maybe you forgot that I'm doing all this shit not only to have it for myself but also for you guys so that you can do it in the future without all the pain and suffering that I went through...
But no, you're right, I'm a jerk and a dick because I don't have time to moan about the fact that the word desura isn't linked to the desura site and people might actually have to google it. Pfft.
Last edited by Forboding Angel on 11 May 2011, 23:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: Decline in the number of players
Double post because I want this to be clear and emphasized.
Knorke, i don't dislike you. In fact I think you're quite alright. It irritates and frustrates me what you are doing in this thread because it essentially equates to you taking a giant dump all over all the other spring content devs. And many of us have spent many many days, weeks, and months in trying to solve the various problems and attempting to get around roadblocks. Myself in particular.
You're essentially going around and slapping everyone in the face, and as a fairly newcomer to the content dev scene, it's a little upsetting.
Knorke, i don't dislike you. In fact I think you're quite alright. It irritates and frustrates me what you are doing in this thread because it essentially equates to you taking a giant dump all over all the other spring content devs. And many of us have spent many many days, weeks, and months in trying to solve the various problems and attempting to get around roadblocks. Myself in particular.
You're essentially going around and slapping everyone in the face, and as a fairly newcomer to the content dev scene, it's a little upsetting.
Re: Decline in the number of players
Fix those fucking *s
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: Decline in the number of players
Sorry. I was trying to make it more easy to differentiate the sections. I removed them.
Re: Decline in the number of players
If your games visuals are superb there is no need to point that out really..just show a screenshot. Gets the point across better and doesn't sound cocky.
Re: Decline in the number of players
How is making a criticism you supposedly alraedy knew, taking a dump on anything?
Developers can be such brittle creatures...
Developers can be such brittle creatures...
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luckywaldo7
- Posts: 1398
- Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 04:36
Re: Decline in the number of players
Before you criticize him, go walk a mile in his shoes.Johannes wrote:How is making a criticism you supposedly alraedy knew, taking a dump on anything?
Developers can be such brittle creatures...
Re: Decline in the number of players
People like johan and womb are not going to. I was happy when I saw womb helping out around here but he had regressed a bit. Johan I think is a kid and you should not be so hard on him. I do not reply to this thread as I see it as a waste of time. Yes forb is being oversensitive and I think knorke has some good points. However, I feel doing something is more valueable than sitting here and throwing around ideas. You can do that if you want and you can be sinbad. I am not.
I am doing IRL shit lately and honestly don't miss this place at all. You guys can shit up the place and keep shitting it up. No one is going to stop you. Whatever I am going to play xbox, is it more productive than talking with this community.
I am doing IRL shit lately and honestly don't miss this place at all. You guys can shit up the place and keep shitting it up. No one is going to stop you. Whatever I am going to play xbox, is it more productive than talking with this community.
Re: Decline in the number of players
EXCUSE ME.I was happy when I saw womb helping out around here but he had regressed a bit.
fact i dont spam pics in wip doesnt mean i dont do anything. there is something like pm which i can use to send stuff :'
nubxbox
Re: Decline in the number of players
bla on springinfo.info
To me it seems more like a page where new/potential players should be directed to, so that they do not get lost in the wiki jungle.
iirc that was the original idea at least but i dont know.
Fact: as of now, the site fails at this job. (read on or older posts why)
But look, I even posted what is wrong with the other links:
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... &start=177
I (and i guess other did the same) commentated on the links multiple times before, ie:
29 Jul 2010
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 85&start=5
The link to http://xta.darkstars.co.uk/forums/ is still on the site.
I suppose it worked over 9000 years ago but I do not ever remember that.
And that is just the broken links. Not to mention the games that added their URL to http://springrts.com/wiki/Games that you do not list, for whatever reason.
Then you would notice that (once embedded) videos are broken since a year or so:
(at least in firefox, win xp)
I repeat myself: A websites does not "run itself."
Once you start such a site, you have taken up some responsibility.
Yes, others can contribute as well. BUT:
For example you copied the [[Games]] page from springrts.com:
http://www.springinfo.info/gamesmodifications/
If you know you will have not time to keep it updated, then link to the original page or put it in a frame or whatever.
Otherwise: taaaaaaarpit!
general bla
Anyway, In fact that was my whole point basically.
It seemed to me you and others were kind of denying that so I pointed it out.
And with "process" I mean everything from finding the trailer on youtube to finally playing the game.
Not just the installers, also the web pages, screenshot galleries are part of this process.
Obviously I have no solution for better installers but at at least fix the links?!
That does not require 6 years of doing stuff, it is quickly done but the effect is big.
mods-are-sleeping bla
I can edit wiki but not stickies or forbs site. Also http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=25323 etc
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lets just stop this, it is just fuzzing out into pathetic skirmishs like all these threads do.
tl;dr broken links and outdated stuff on springinfo.info
glhf with new installer.
It says "Player Portal" in the title and there are some guides, links etc on the site.Springinfo is a news aggregator
To me it seems more like a page where new/potential players should be directed to, so that they do not get lost in the wiki jungle.
iirc that was the original idea at least but i dont know.
Fact: as of now, the site fails at this job. (read on or older posts why)
it is more then one link. Actually I would think while fixing that one link you would notice the rest maybe.@springinfo link... so what, one link was wrong.
But look, I even posted what is wrong with the other links:
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... &start=177
And that is just the ones I found on frontpage in a few seconds after I got annoyed because you wrote the site was "pretty nice now."http://www.caspring.org/ old, link zerok
http://spring.clan-sy.com/ old, usef springrts.com
http://xta.darkstars.co.uk/forums/ dead
http://spring1944.com/s44/ its http://spring1944.net
I (and i guess other did the same) commentated on the links multiple times before, ie:
29 Jul 2010
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 85&start=5
The link to http://xta.darkstars.co.uk/forums/ is still on the site.
I suppose it worked over 9000 years ago but I do not ever remember that.
And that is just the broken links. Not to mention the games that added their URL to http://springrts.com/wiki/Games that you do not list, for whatever reason.
Maybe you should at look at it from time to time or least listen to feedback?I don't touch the site... it runs itself
Then you would notice that (once embedded) videos are broken since a year or so:
(at least in firefox, win xp)
I repeat myself: A websites does not "run itself."
Once you start such a site, you have taken up some responsibility.
Yes, others can contribute as well. BUT:
For example you copied the [[Games]] page from springrts.com:
http://www.springinfo.info/gamesmodifications/
If you know you will have not time to keep it updated, then link to the original page or put it in a frame or whatever.
Otherwise: taaaaaaarpit!
general bla
So when I say that, it is a "giant dump all over all the other spring content devs" but when you say it, its okay?The install process (on windows) sucks dick.
Anyway, In fact that was my whole point basically.
It seemed to me you and others were kind of denying that so I pointed it out.
And with "process" I mean everything from finding the trailer on youtube to finally playing the game.
Not just the installers, also the web pages, screenshot galleries are part of this process.
Obviously I have no solution for better installers but at at least fix the links?!
That does not require 6 years of doing stuff, it is quickly done but the effect is big.
My main problem is not with the technical side. Yes, everything could be less noobtrappy blabla but that is not the point, I "understand" why some things (ie pathfinding, lobbies) are the way they are.It's not like the engine gives us any choice,
Well, maybe that is your intent if you ie offer to chilify a game. But why do you not just write a guide on it and every time that topic comes up, link to it? Would be a million times easier and save time for all.I'm doing all this shit not only to have it for myself but also for you guys so that you can do it in the future without all the pain and suffering that I went through...
mods-are-sleeping bla
Except, I can not.You can do that if you want and you can be sinbad.
I can edit wiki but not stickies or forbs site. Also http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=25323 etc
---------
lets just stop this, it is just fuzzing out into pathetic skirmishs like all these threads do.
tl;dr broken links and outdated stuff on springinfo.info
glhf with new installer.
gay.fact i dont spam pics in wip
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bobthedinosaur
- Blood & Steel Developer
- Posts: 2702
- Joined: 25 Aug 2004, 13:31
Re: Decline in the number of players
Hard GAY? or little girl BA gay?
Re: Decline in the number of players
WHAT NOW.gay.
@springinfo - im here 3 years and i found that website in this thread. just sayin.
Re: Decline in the number of players
wasn't directed at you knorke.
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bobthedinosaur
- Blood & Steel Developer
- Posts: 2702
- Joined: 25 Aug 2004, 13:31
Re: Decline in the number of players
Knorke has been defending spring a lot lately. Maybe he is just now really getting into it?
Re: Decline in the number of players
I do understand why people react to criticism that way (happens all the time everywhere), but it's still not sensible. It's just a waste of his energy.luckywaldo7 wrote:Before you criticize him, go walk a mile in his shoes.Johannes wrote:How is making a criticism you supposedly alraedy knew, taking a dump on anything?
Developers can be such brittle creatures...