)Final Frontier 1.18 (Website and first FF-map released)
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Optimus Prime
- Posts: 755
- Joined: 03 Oct 2005, 14:31
Ok here is the new Version 1.04 (see first Post for download)
Change Log
FINAL FRONTIER "The Next Generation Of War" 1.04
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- Changed: Big Battlestations now have 7 Turrets and dont fire through their shiphull
- Changed: some smaller changes on lot of models (for example sledgehammer, eclipse or lvl 1 Corturret)
- Changed: sledgehammerweaponeffect to old laser style
- Changed: now all cloaked and stealthed units are ONLY available at the Spylab
- Balance: Nanotowers now have a shorter range 400 (550)
- Balance: Repairdrones are more expensive now 200 (100) and have a higher workertime 40 (30)
- Balance: some smaller changes (for example Eclipse more HP, warspite more expensive, sledgehammer HP reduced a bit, Metalion HP increased a bit)
- Fixed: Now its possible again to select the commander with pressing CTR + C
Change Log
FINAL FRONTIER "The Next Generation Of War" 1.04
===================================
- Changed: Big Battlestations now have 7 Turrets and dont fire through their shiphull
- Changed: some smaller changes on lot of models (for example sledgehammer, eclipse or lvl 1 Corturret)
- Changed: sledgehammerweaponeffect to old laser style
- Changed: now all cloaked and stealthed units are ONLY available at the Spylab
- Balance: Nanotowers now have a shorter range 400 (550)
- Balance: Repairdrones are more expensive now 200 (100) and have a higher workertime 40 (30)
- Balance: some smaller changes (for example Eclipse more HP, warspite more expensive, sledgehammer HP reduced a bit, Metalion HP increased a bit)
- Fixed: Now its possible again to select the commander with pressing CTR + C
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smokingwreckage
- Posts: 327
- Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 11:40
I gotta say, I've had a few games of FF now, and oh, the battles in this mod are godly. Even losing is fun with battles this good. The Spring version has improved on a coupla weaknesses with OTA FF.
Question; what happened to the really big fleet-support builder ship? I don't remember seeing it recently...
Question; what happened to the really big fleet-support builder ship? I don't remember seeing it recently...
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Optimus Prime
- Posts: 755
- Joined: 03 Oct 2005, 14:31
Thats exactly the point i am working on. I wanna make the best out of Spring to make battles not only a necessity to win but a real eye and ear candy :) (there will be coming more in the futureI gotta say, I've had a few games of FF now, and oh, the battles in this mod are godly. Even losing is fun with battles this good. The Spring version has improved on a coupla weaknesses with OTA FF.
)Yes you are right. We had to delete them, cause there was a bug which let them be useless. When we know how to fix that, we will bring them back, but thats a point down in our to do list.Question; what happened to the really big fleet-support builder ship? I don't remember seeing it recently...
I have some complaints about the new version
First whats happend to the ressurct ships.. They seem like they are hovercraft now ... I built one and it got stuck on some buildings.. which it then could only be used as a res turret.. perhaps making them abit higher off the ground would help
Second: whats with the Figther turret not shooting Big ships... and the Ion Cannon not shooting Fighters.. It would be good to go back to how it was before where everything shoots everyhting..
Third: Whats with the Longbow missle ship.. It wasnt shooting its missles when I got attacked... there was 4 of them and they didnt launch there missles.. not one.. then later on in the game another person in the game was attacking and they shot...
Fouth: what have you done to the eclipse.. It looks horrible now... Why the change
Well thats my rant done... from me and Fizwizz the co complainer
other then those few problems this is a good mod
First whats happend to the ressurct ships.. They seem like they are hovercraft now ... I built one and it got stuck on some buildings.. which it then could only be used as a res turret.. perhaps making them abit higher off the ground would help
Second: whats with the Figther turret not shooting Big ships... and the Ion Cannon not shooting Fighters.. It would be good to go back to how it was before where everything shoots everyhting..
Third: Whats with the Longbow missle ship.. It wasnt shooting its missles when I got attacked... there was 4 of them and they didnt launch there missles.. not one.. then later on in the game another person in the game was attacking and they shot...
Fouth: what have you done to the eclipse.. It looks horrible now... Why the change
Well thats my rant done... from me and Fizwizz the co complainer
other then those few problems this is a good mod
To elaborate upon one of the points made by Folcan...
I picked through the files to find out why ion cannons wouldn't target fighters, and I found these tags
I couldn't figure what the anti-fighter lasers were named, but I assume that they have similar tags. It would make everyone happier (I would think) if capships were put under badtargetcategory for the anti-fighter lasers. similarly, fighters ought to be put into badtargetcategory for ion cannons, I guess. The thing is though, weren't Ion cannons supposed to take down fighters due to their incredible homing capability? Explanation would be greatly appreciated
I picked through the files to find out why ion cannons wouldn't target fighters, and I found these tags
Code: Select all
BadTargetCategory=VTOL;
...
OnlyTargetCategory1=BIG;-
Optimus Prime
- Posts: 755
- Joined: 03 Oct 2005, 14:31
- to the ressurection ship: i never got stuck with it, but to change the flightheight is not a problem. I will have a look on that and will change it, if its to small.
- the thing with bad target category seems to be bad in the first look, but it isnt. In FF <1.03 all weapons shoot all and therefore, often it happened, that the piledriver or the broadside tries to target a small fighter which they never hit with their big weapons. So you lose your whole firepower cause of a small fighter. Now its so, that big weapons only target big ships and antifighterweapons only small ships. That makes it a) more tactical and b) it gives the weapons a bit of an intelligence. But only a small kind of the weapons have bad target categories...
- the longbow should fire correctly. It has a bad targetcategory too for small ships. Think of the longbow shooting all of its 16 rockets after a small fighter.. that would suck a lot o.O.
- you must ask fang about the eclipse. Some ppl asked to give it the barrels back so fang did so. I personally liked the version with only one firepoint from the front the best too, but never mind.
@FizzWiss: what do u mean with Ioncannons? The Ionbolts? How does it look, if such a big Bolt target small fighters? I think its good like it is... you just need to play some more games with it and you will get familiar with it.
- the thing with bad target category seems to be bad in the first look, but it isnt. In FF <1.03 all weapons shoot all and therefore, often it happened, that the piledriver or the broadside tries to target a small fighter which they never hit with their big weapons. So you lose your whole firepower cause of a small fighter. Now its so, that big weapons only target big ships and antifighterweapons only small ships. That makes it a) more tactical and b) it gives the weapons a bit of an intelligence. But only a small kind of the weapons have bad target categories...
- the longbow should fire correctly. It has a bad targetcategory too for small ships. Think of the longbow shooting all of its 16 rockets after a small fighter.. that would suck a lot o.O.
- you must ask fang about the eclipse. Some ppl asked to give it the barrels back so fang did so. I personally liked the version with only one firepoint from the front the best too, but never mind.
@FizzWiss: what do u mean with Ioncannons? The Ionbolts? How does it look, if such a big Bolt target small fighters? I think its good like it is... you just need to play some more games with it and you will get familiar with it.
I will modify the eclipse again if no one is happy with this version..(personally I thought the previous version was good myself)
About weapons, the big lasers, ion bolts, photon cannons etc... fire such large projectiles, with slow refire rates etc that they should be unable to hit a fighter or such with all but the best of luck. So with that down what is the point of making them target such things when their chance to hit them is slim to none.. well there isnt. Look at say WW2, if a battleship was under attack even only by fighters it still didnt turn its main 16" guns up in the air and try and shoot down the fighters with them. FF is following this mentality. Even if we made the weapons have a bad target catagory they would be incredibly inaccurate against such target and have a slow refire rate, making them a waste of time to shoot down fighters. Having certain weapons not fire at certain targets, forces you to use combined arms in your fleet as well as in your defences, you cannot just spam one kind of turret and win you must build several kinds, or back them up with other fighters, same with a fleet now.. I dont understand why this is a bad thing sounds to me more like it would encourage more varied battles. You are the only ones complaining about this..
Also side note the rez ship has a to be a hovercraft because something with both spring and TA prevents full fledged aircraft from rezzing, thusly giving it a higher hover height would accomplish nothing since it would still get stuck on stuff, there is nothing we can do about this whatsoever it is an engine limitation.
About weapons, the big lasers, ion bolts, photon cannons etc... fire such large projectiles, with slow refire rates etc that they should be unable to hit a fighter or such with all but the best of luck. So with that down what is the point of making them target such things when their chance to hit them is slim to none.. well there isnt. Look at say WW2, if a battleship was under attack even only by fighters it still didnt turn its main 16" guns up in the air and try and shoot down the fighters with them. FF is following this mentality. Even if we made the weapons have a bad target catagory they would be incredibly inaccurate against such target and have a slow refire rate, making them a waste of time to shoot down fighters. Having certain weapons not fire at certain targets, forces you to use combined arms in your fleet as well as in your defences, you cannot just spam one kind of turret and win you must build several kinds, or back them up with other fighters, same with a fleet now.. I dont understand why this is a bad thing sounds to me more like it would encourage more varied battles. You are the only ones complaining about this..
Also side note the rez ship has a to be a hovercraft because something with both spring and TA prevents full fledged aircraft from rezzing, thusly giving it a higher hover height would accomplish nothing since it would still get stuck on stuff, there is nothing we can do about this whatsoever it is an engine limitation.
Eh ill leave that up to optimus... however due to popular request (actually only one person, but I liked it) Im adding the TLL race into FF, this will be in a format similiar to how AA is with its various versions, so you can choose to play with it or without it at your own discretion.
Yes I know the TLL has no space ships, I will be using existing models from the race to "kitbash" a set of ships up, along with using existing structures. This TLL race will be somewhere inbetween both arm and core, have some fast units and some brutish units, it will have different weaponry and its own set of unique ships.. So far I have done all of the lvl 1 units/buildings for it (everything built by the commander, lvl1 con, and lvl1 plant).. I will progress further in but it will more than likely be more difficult as I head up the tech tree since there were already many existing small aircraft to go on as models for fighters etc...
Yes I know the TLL has no space ships, I will be using existing models from the race to "kitbash" a set of ships up, along with using existing structures. This TLL race will be somewhere inbetween both arm and core, have some fast units and some brutish units, it will have different weaponry and its own set of unique ships.. So far I have done all of the lvl 1 units/buildings for it (everything built by the commander, lvl1 con, and lvl1 plant).. I will progress further in but it will more than likely be more difficult as I head up the tech tree since there were already many existing small aircraft to go on as models for fighters etc...
I suppose I can live with ion bolt (yes, bolt, sorry) launchers firing only at capships, but I would like to illustrate the point I was trying to make about anti-fighter lasers. I was attacking an Island of Folcans with a small task force of Morning Stars. He had one (or two) medium lasers on that island, and approximately four light lasers. My Morningstars engaged and destroye the medium lasers, but (and I don't remember what exactly did it) my attention got distracted to elsewhere and for a minute or two I had forgotten about my morning stars. That was noobishness on my part, and I should have lost at least two of them to the turrets, but the turrets did not engage them, even though there was no real barrier to their doing so.
My dissapointment over the ion bolt launchers arose because I had built a line of them as an anti-bomber screen (a task I figured their weapon would be very appropriate for, given the high single-shot damage and their homing ability) to protect an island of mine, but unfortunately they did not target the bombers at all.
What Folcan and I are asking for is that the anti-fighter weapons at least attack capships given that there are no other targets of opportunity present (i.e. fighters), and that the ion bolt launcher be given a similar increase in target flexibility.
p.s. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with TLL
My dissapointment over the ion bolt launchers arose because I had built a line of them as an anti-bomber screen (a task I figured their weapon would be very appropriate for, given the high single-shot damage and their homing ability) to protect an island of mine, but unfortunately they did not target the bombers at all.
What Folcan and I are asking for is that the anti-fighter weapons at least attack capships given that there are no other targets of opportunity present (i.e. fighters), and that the ion bolt launcher be given a similar increase in target flexibility.
p.s. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with TLL
The Anti-Fighter turrets only shoot at fighters because they do less than nothing dmg wise to other ship types.. Please read the description on the Ion bolt turret it cleary says anti ODS, not anti bomber or anything else... and if ravengers are shooting at fighters that may be an oversite on optimus's part he was the one who implemented that..
Yea but what if you havent managed to build any bigger turrets and you get attacked by a big ships... youll have turrets that just sit there and watch the light show...
Because quite a few maps ive played the you are really strapped for metal... and sometimes cant afford building many different turrets
Because quite a few maps ive played the you are really strapped for metal... and sometimes cant afford building many different turrets
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Optimus Prime
- Posts: 755
- Joined: 03 Oct 2005, 14:31
to the ravager: I had to do that for one reason. The big Battlestation(cor) uses 2 of this weapons, 3 ionbolts and one siegegun. The Ionbolts and the Siegegun arent able to target fighters (thats not discussable) and so there is only the ravagerweapon which could aim Fighters. If i would change that, the big Battlestation wouldnt aim fighters anyway where the arm version does (annihilator).
to the general discussion about the target ability of the turrets and so. We (I) made it as easy as possible by only making TWO (yes only two=2) types of Categories (BIG and SMALL). So you need at *maximum* TWO types of Turrets or units and dont say me that thats higher than your skill. There are also some Turrets which shoot at all types (Battlestations and Minigunweapons or Ravager). Think of Starcraft there u have 2 types of defense too and all is fine. I think u only get used with that and than u think better of these changes, cause in the past, it could happen, that the flak targets a Battleship for 10 minutes cause of the low damage while a horde of fighters were flying around it. That was stupid and in this version, something like that wouldnt happen anymore.
to the general discussion about the target ability of the turrets and so. We (I) made it as easy as possible by only making TWO (yes only two=2) types of Categories (BIG and SMALL). So you need at *maximum* TWO types of Turrets or units and dont say me that thats higher than your skill. There are also some Turrets which shoot at all types (Battlestations and Minigunweapons or Ravager). Think of Starcraft there u have 2 types of defense too and all is fine. I think u only get used with that and than u think better of these changes, cause in the past, it could happen, that the flak targets a Battleship for 10 minutes cause of the low damage while a horde of fighters were flying around it. That was stupid and in this version, something like that wouldnt happen anymore.
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Optimus Prime
- Posts: 755
- Joined: 03 Oct 2005, 14:31
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smokingwreckage
- Posts: 327
- Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 11:40
I have three thoughts that I think we should add in...
1. The Communications ship does not work as a targeting facility so a building version should be added, lvl 2 more than likely, since accurate targeting is neccessary for this mod.
2. A geo type building should be added so geo vents can be used, simply call it a gas harvestor or something else (there is gas in space)
3. I think the storage buildings should be added to the commanders build menu, they are in OTA, and I dont see why they arent in this mod since really the commander has a very limited build list
1. The Communications ship does not work as a targeting facility so a building version should be added, lvl 2 more than likely, since accurate targeting is neccessary for this mod.
2. A geo type building should be added so geo vents can be used, simply call it a gas harvestor or something else (there is gas in space)
3. I think the storage buildings should be added to the commanders build menu, they are in OTA, and I dont see why they arent in this mod since really the commander has a very limited build list