Decline in the number of players

[smoth]

if its that easy, why dont you do it.

iPhone fggt, I am posting from it, copy pasting that much crap is a lot of work and you are the lazy dickhead that is trolling go look it up yourself

[smoth]

Are there people still playing BA? I mean aside from the DSD asshats...

definitely more than sa (i mean, there actually ARE ppl playing BA)

This isn't /b/ don't start trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls.. Please

[Licho]

I run some stats .. since february there were

* 6600 new accounts joining spring
* 700 still played last 7 days
* only about 7% tried ZK! -> pretty horrible considering its second biggest game
* out of those that tried ZK, 40% were still playing it last week

Also 30% of people who tried ZK in their first 4 days were still in spring compared to 10% of spring average..

Result-> it's possible that BA is hurting spring in the long term, data suggests that if primary mod was ZK it would have more people due to higher retention rate.

Result2 -> Any huge "main" game also hurts all other games (just 7% trying second biggest mod which is actually close to 1/3 of player minutes of BA is pretty horrible number)

[TradeMark]

if its that easy, why dont you do it.

iPhone fggt, I am posting from it, copy pasting that much crap is a lot of work and you are the lazy dickhead that is trolling go look it up yourself

dont call me names, im not trolling. im just lazy dickhead.

[Wombat]

Result-> it's possible that BA is hurting spring in the long term, data suggests that if primary mod was ZK it would have more people due to higher retention rate.

what a fail logic it is... it hurts 0k, not spring lol.

[Gota]

I run some stats .. since february there were

* 6600 new accounts joining spring
* 700 still played last 7 days
* only about 7% tried ZK! -> pretty horrible considering its second biggest game
* out of those that tried ZK, 40% were still playing it last week

Also 30% of people who tried ZK in their first 4 days were still in spring compared to 10% of spring average..

Result-> it's possible that BA is hurting spring in the long term, data suggests that if primary mod was ZK it would have more people due to higher retention rate.

Result2 -> Any huge "main" game also hurts all other games (just 7% trying second biggest mod which is actually close to 1/3 of player minutes of BA is pretty horrible number)

so...
Why not run your game on another server instead of mixing with BA?

[knorke]

over the years, new spring games were made or got playable. (though some were lost)
over the years, player numbers stayed ~the same.

still the same old people, just switching between games.

It also seems there is a barrier where increased player numbers do not cause more battles to be played at the same time. Instead average battle size just goes up.

Also 30% of people who tried ZK in their first 4 days were still in spring compared to 10% of spring average..

Interessting stats, would like to see more. Though imo 10% or 30% is not that much with so low numbers. Also all the smurf accounts.

---

Why can "Spring" (lobbies, rapid, file sites, etc) not be a "hub" for multiple games on the spring engine?
Why should every game create its own infrastructure?

[Licho]

what a fail logic it is... it hurts 0k, not spring lol.

I indeed detect a fail logic, not in my post though.

Low retention rate of spring hurts Spring.

Players recycle all the time, some leave some join.
If only 10% of those who try are captured it limits replenishment rate.

If ZK on the other hand keeps 30% it can keep growing even under current conditions.

If it was primary game data suggest that spring players would be growing.

1% difference can easilly mean difference between long term growth or decay.

[KaiserJ]

the "market share" of zk must be slowly increasing though, even if the percentage of ingame time and repeat players is (surprisingly, at least to me) low

right licho?

idk at least in my timezone i see a few zk games going on at night, even if they are often just bot or chicken games, clearly people are having enough fun to play over and over

[smoth]

Why can "Spring" (lobbies, rapid, file sites, etc) not be a "hub" for multiple games on the spring engine?
Why should every game create its own infrastructure?

I agree and feel it would be pointless to split servers further diluting the existing player base. For example say gundam bailed onto it's own server then you guy loose me as a resource. Say s44 did you guys lose them as a resource. The players would not notice this as they are not privy to the behind the scenes of it all but content development would be severely hampered

They say this because they are trying isolate things to go "see no one is playing your game you need ba lololol trollface etc" ba would struggle equally if it's players had to go to a different server except that the can just continue to ride ta's fame to a new player base then they would act as though ba did it on it's own merits. In before the trolls say "you jelly" i am not but I am trying to post an accurate picture here so be troll somewhere else.

[Licho]

KaiserJ - higher retention rate of ZK does not mean it must be increasing if only 7% of spring people try it ..

Spring has 10% retention ZK has 30% but only of <<7% of people that try it soon..

Smoth - regarding split server - depends what you want. If you want players and can advertise efficiently, server is better for you, as any advertisment you do atm goes mostly to BA (93% of people never even try ZK - for Gundam its probably above 99%).

If you have own server you can be sure that 100% at least try it and if its good some will stay.

On the other hand if you dont advertise much and rely on spring's players trying Gundam, split is not good option for you.

Both ways "resources" are not lost. All devs still work on same game engine and can talk to each otther.

[Cheesecan]

Let's say out loud what most people here probably think: All the other spring games have really failed in getting players.

So you guys who are making those games, why don't you look at how other successful indie games have gone and done it. Only one that I can think of that got popular from sponging off a bigger and more popular game is CS, and that was a different thing since HL had tens of thousands of players and the original multiplayer of HL was boring.

The rest of them all went out alone and built their own fan loyal fan base. They didn't spend hundreds of hours on forums trying to convince players of another game why they think their game deserves to be played(what's with that? don't you have a game to build? to market? etc).

Really what I have been saying forever now, also in regards to licensing, is that if you want to make a game you should approach it like a business and not as a hobby. Hobbies don't generally get you paid and getting paid and getting popular is almost the same thing these days.

Maybe you feel what I'm saying is very offensive because you put a lot of work into your games and I am just an outsider pissing on your parade, but so what..

[Licho]

Actually ZK is much more sucessful at keeping players than BA.

People who play BA didnt find it for BA - they found spring engine .. BA has no advertising. Its only advertisment is being the biggest mod atm.

Long term this hurts spring if its actually really poor game at keeping new players interested compared to other options.

I'm pretty sure that that long term ZK will be more popular than BA, simply because of higher retention rate and its strategy to advertise independently from spring (though we havent started advertising yet, except for my $10 advertising campaign which resulted in like 12 visits

[Cheesecan]

You're wrong because BA has word of mouth advertising and that is one of the strongest forms of advertising.

Imagine your pal tells you to install BA and come play with him and the gang. Gundam? que that's fucking lame! ZK? nah duuude ignore all those others and install BA.

Then story goes guy does so, plays a few games with pals then leaves after his friends tire(and he thus loses interest).

Anyway kudos on the higher retention rate than BA but 30% is not very high, considering players actually go to to all the trouble to install an open source game, that's already filtering out like 90% of gamers, so they must have lower standards(let's call it that for the sake of argument) than most. So 30% of very little is damn near nothing.

Take minecraft for instance(my current pet example of a successful indie game), not only can they trick people into buying their unfinished game but I'd say retention rates are very close to 100% in the first week or so after initial exposure.

Not saying you have to have a brilliant idea and be able to monetize it, that takes hard work, creative spark and luck, but you certainly have to be competing on the same terms.

Ain't nobody got rich off running a sideshow carnival. Well maybe PT Barnum(BA) did get paid a little but the rest of the show, the strong man, fat man, elephant man, clowns, funny house and seer witch and all those other misfits (ZK, Gundam et al) didn't get jack shit.

[smoth]

Cheese and licho( to be clear mor cheese that licho)





For the last time.

I am not looking to convert any players

I am not worried about "losing" my gundam people

If someone play gundam great, if they stay around great. If someone play gundam and becomes a member of the spring community woot!

I like seeing other projects grow and develop, I want to watch this

I try to HELP other projects

Stop thinking there is some godamn imaginary war where I am attacking you to steal your players

[smoth]

Oh one other thing I believe in freeware so please stop telling me to monetize my work. If I did I would be closed source btw

[Licho]

Why do you think there is mouth of the word spread?
Web statistics suggest that most people come from referencing sites ..
not direct visits or direct search for spring not to mention BA.

If it was such spread then retention rate would be far higher. It suggest its new people unrelated to existing.

[TradeMark]

Oh one other thing I believe in freeware so please stop telling me to monetize my work. If I did I would be closed source btw

whats wrong with extra cash? if notch was like you he wouldnt have 20millions by now... also minecraft is opensource btw.

[zwzsg]

also minecraft is opensource btw.

Citation neeeded.

All I could find is that Minecraft might get open sourced, one day, once Notch has milked it to the last drop, and assuming he doesn't change his mind by then.

[Jazcash]

also minecraft is opensource btw.

Citation neeeded.

All I could find is that Minecraft might get open sourced, one day, once Notch has milked it to the last drop, and assuming he doesn't change his mind by then.

Damn, you beat me to it. Minecraft isn't open-source.