Present: hoijui, jK, abma, Tobi
Agenda
* Welcome
* What to do against (lobby) smurfs?
* add subforum with implementation ideas by developers for new developers
* Release plan
===Welcome===
<abma>hmm, etherpad has often problems at meeting time
<jK>it has very often problems independent of meetings
<abma>hm, then i'm lucky :)
<jK>the server seems to have some issues atm (springfiles.com etc.)
<hoijui>abma.. maybe you shoudl try to stick to one color on etherpad
<hoijui>not important of course
<abma>hmm, often i forgot that to set it :-/
<hoijui>mm
<hoijui>woudl be nice if it would use a name hash
<abma>:-D
<hoijui>instead of random
<abma>+1 :)
<jK>meh now it is totally down
<abma>restarted?
<abma>now it works...
<Tobi>monit is set up to restart it if it doesn't respond for 2 cycles (= 4 minutes iirc) or so
<abma>ok...
<Tobi>it's a bit cramped setup, gave it only 256M while by default it wants 1G
<abma>hm, looks like lichos server now has a competition
<Tobi>load avg is below 10 =)
<jK>below 10?????
<jK>never get my desktops higher than 2-3
<Tobi>my record is close to 1000 :)
<jK>O_O
<Tobi>(simulating peer to peer network with ~400 nodes on single PC)
<hoijui>who makes minutes?
<abma>i will
<hoijui>thanks!
conclusion: we had some ideas to improve etherpad
=== What to do against (lobby) smurfs? ===
<abma>that was my point
<abma>i know its a bit off-topic
<jK>as said on the etherpad, it is mainly a lobby <-> lobbyserver issue
<jK>and we don't have access to any of those
<jK>so we can only start a discussion between those
<jK>(e.g. my idea is to save all usernames of a userID and to add a new lobby cmd to get this list)
<jK>TASClient already does something like that, but locally
<abma>hm, looks like there are needs for such stuff...hmm
<hoijui>theres a new property system in the workings, in hte lobby protocol
<hoijui>i think it should make this easy
<abma>ah, ok
<abma>hmm, ok
<abma>then i hope this will help to init a disscussion between the lobby devs
<abma>next point?
conclusion:
* spring-devs can't improve lobby-stuff, the lobby guys (server+client) have to do that!
* lobby-protocol needs improvement
=== add subforum with implementation ideas by developers for new developers ===
<jK>often new devs, don't know what they could do for spring or where to start
<jK>so there should be a list with implementation ideas (like we had for GSOC)
<jK>e.g. "add fontconfig support", "finish luaLobby", "add LuaLanes", "add LuaJIT for LuaUI", ...
<jK>(I don't have full forum rights so someone else would have to create that subforum)
<hoijui>we have a wiki with that already, it is outdated though
<hoijui>the con with a forum is, that only the orig author can change the stuff
<abma>wikipage: http://springrts.com/wiki/SpringEngineTODO
<hoijui>you think more people will find it in the forum, then in hte wiki?
<jK>A forum would have a better acceptance, also ppl could ask questions in there
<abma>hm, ok
<abma>then when the forum is created i'll write there a link to it
<abma>+1 from me for that suggestion :)
<jK>zzzZZZ
<abma>hmmm, tobi, kloot you're fine with that? next+last point?
<hoijui>next
conclusion:
* the devs need a subforum "implementation ideas". maybe these ideas can be implemented/solved by others
* http://springrts.com/wiki/SpringEngineTODO is outdated
===Release plan===
<jK>far away it seems :D
<abma>yep...
<Tobi>it's fine with me
<hoijui>i am quite inactive, sprign(engine) wise, since a few weeks
<hoijui>so ... no plans for a soon ot come release from me
<hoijui>don't think i will work much more on a project i don't see hope for. i dont see hope for spring anymore
<abma>:-/
<jK>just because others didn't agreed on your plan how to modularize particle rendering ...
<jK>don't you have any other ideas for spring?
<hoijui>aehm.. sure i do
<hoijui>its not that others do nto agree, that has happend a lot in the past
<hoijui>but it is somethign very important in my eyes, and your reasons are not viable to me
<jK>it's not even the code you daily work with (it's rendering)
<hoijui>it is not just this thing, but similar decissions (that did or more important, would) happen
<hoijui>please do not try to tell me what i shoudl care about and what not, k?
<hoijui>i want a more OO design in general, compared to you, kloot and Tobi
<jK>our would be OOP too
<hoijui>and i do not feel like i coudl change your mind anymore
<hoijui>current is too
<hoijui>mine is more then yours and current
<hoijui>Tobi agreed there, and nobody had a coutner arguemnt so far
<jK>I already told you that we have this way already in the source (for weapons) and it failed totally
<jK>but independent of that I don't think that it needs this change at all atm, as long as someone wants to implement something new on top of that (gpu based particles etc.)
<hoijui>and your way will fail double time
<hoijui>ouh really.. that sounds like.. new arguemtn.. or not quite?
<hoijui>please dont reiterate all the old stuff, that did not convince me in hte first place
<jK>not an argument just a reason to not overrate this
<hoijui>ok.. already heard reason then, makes no difference
<jK>e.g. I don't leave spring just because I dislike the current way of multithreading that gets introduced
<hoijui>ok.. i try to explaimn again:
<hoijui>i want OO level 10, you, kloot and tobi want level 7(whatever)
<hoijui>this will matter in practically every decission to take, about restructuring
<jK>then don't restruct?
<jK>as said as long as it doesn't affect code you daily work with, who cares
<hoijui>i tel lyou, i do not want to work on spring anymore for that reason
<hoijui>it is not even a concious decission
<hoijui>i just coudl not get me to do anythign anymore
<hoijui>and no matter how unworthy you think the reason is, that will not change anythign for me
<jK>what happened to your resource abstraction project?
<hoijui>well.. it is not done
<hoijui>neither is aiChecksums, launcher and a lto of other stuff
<jK>maybe the perfect point of time to resurrect them ^^
<hoijui>i can commit what i have uncommitted yet, and push to github yeah, in case someone wants to go on there
<Tobi>don't take my opinion on this oo thing too serious (I tend to change opinion quickly anyway as new information comes in + I don't really have time to work on it myself)
<hoijui>yeah.. you are the one most friendly to the idea, of you three, i guess.. but yeah.. even if you woudl change mind...
<hoijui>as kloot and jk do much more commits these days, not much woudl change if you'd change mind
<Tobi>it's just that at that time (iirc) I thought a simpler solution might be more pragmatic (though that was from the POV that nothing was written yet)
<jK>erm
<jK>I haven't done commits for ages, because this raytracing is killing my sanity
<hoijui>yeah ok.. stil muhc more then Tobi
<hoijui>in the last half year
<hoijui>i can't say if it is only that. there might be other reasons, also RL, but this seems to have been the turning point.
<hoijui>maybe i will also change again
<hoijui>but this release, to be done soon... or other stuff that comes up these days. i think not
<jK>gn8
conclusion:
* try to small parts of work and finish it
* don't be afraid, when your ideas/plans get to few attention
* no plan for releases yet, devs are in a "spring"-depression and currently a bit lazy
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