AWK generated output and The source code tarballs

[AF]

Okay, since this is a sensitive issue to certain people for reasons they quit frankly refuse to explain, Ill try and word this as carefully as I can.

The problem:

People who use windows to develop AIs are limited. Certain things such as the C++ Wrapper headers, and the new API interface version are generated by awk using cmake commands.

These commands fail in windows. I cannot generate them, and other people have posted similar failures. Nowhere is this stated in the documentation. Nor is it stated that these headers need ot be generated to begin with.

My proposed solution:

Someone on linux can generate them once and insert them into the release tarball. This means not having to prod and poke linux people when a new build of spring is release, not having confused people new to the engine go elsewhere unsatisfied ( and it has happened, I've had University proffesors tell me this, people on twitter ).

I can understand it not being practical when doing git repo checkouts, and I can understand not wanting generated sources in the version control system. But what about the source code downloads for major releases?

The response:

• "Just use cmake" which I and others have tried, and doesn't work, to which I get no response.
• I've been told not to ask for C++ Wrappers again despite it being the only way for me to acquire them.

• [15:19:57] <[ARP]hoijui_g5> i am now in hte end phase i would say, wiht the checksum check thigns for AIs
  [15:20:17] <[ARP]hoijui_g5> the thing relies heavily on AWK scripts beeing executed by the build system
  [15:20:34] <[ARP]hoijui_g5> so.. i guess you wont have it with Visualstudio builds..

  Which defeats the whole point as the AIs that have this problem and need this solution are built and distributed by developers using visual studio. All the others are made by linux developers or using buildbot on release

I really do not see why this is an issue at all. The processes that create the tarball are automated already, why can we not add a simple command to build the extra headers or add them as an extra download? It is not obvious that extra steps are even necessary yet I've experienced nothing but contempt and disdain for questioning what shouldn't be an issue at all, and should not have taken this much time, or this much energy to resolve.

Im a visual studio developer, if I cant get these headers then I cant release my AI. Its rare that I have a linux environment to develop on, and its unfamiliar territory for me. I know I am not the only person in this boat, but I also know that Im in a minority of highly vocal people, and if I dont say anything, nobody will.

So please, why is my solution not possible? If it isn't what do I need to do to make it possible?

Im open to constructive discussion, but when I raise problems theyre not discussed, theyre put down as bitching, which gets neither of us anywhere and wastes a lot of time. There are problems, how am I supposed to deal with them if I cant talk about them or fix them on my own?

[hoijui]

hoijui: AF, there is a possible problem coming up, i want to work out a solution for it
AF: baw @$#%#$^$# i want it different i want it like so i can do @%#@$%#$
hoijui: let me explain what is planned, and what could be a problem
AF: *muah muah muah* why me, always meee?!?! i have so much love to give, but the world is not ready for it!!!
hoijui: so the system i am working on, uses AWK to ...
AF: why do you do this to me!??! you are killing spring, cause we all know that spring can't survive without AI devs using VisualStudio, and due to windows devs being limited - think of them as at least as limited as i am - @#$^@mummiee!!#$%&# - i can't understand why you don't pack abc with the source @@%212345
hoijui: you kind of start to annoy me (why does this not surprise me?)
... so these scripts generate a checksum, which, if built with cmake, get inserted into the AI automatically, and as i know you use VS, and i guess there is no easy way to let it execute awk scritps at builld-time, there are the following alt...
AF: i have said since the beginning of time that i am.. aeh i mean, that someone else should do work for me cause i need it, and i told them how to do it, and then they want to discuss still i mean @#$%#$ wasting my time or what?
hoijui: you are on my chat ignore list now

btw, i did the nice formatting just for you!

[MidKnight]

Hoijui, that was very funny, but not nice at all, and did little to explain why AF's request isn't being complied with. Could you also post something constructive?

[AF]

And wholly inaccurate also.

I have an issue, one you have been blatantly ignoring, and if anything compounding. Of course its going to be annoying having the same person prod you repeatedly for months. Fix it to begin with and save yourself the hassle, your going to have to do the work anyway.

Accusing me of being lazy is insulting and untrue, I do have done plenty of work here, but I'm not all knowing and all capable, and this is your responsibility not mine. I'm not the API designer, or the API maintainer, you are, and not everyone has the luxury of just installing and using ubuntu and knowing everything.

If anybody is trying to avoid doing work it's you, and I don't have any intention to annoy or peeve you off but your not exactly helping things by intentionally trying to peeve or annoy me.

So again, I ask, why can we not bundle things like the C++ wrappers in the source downloads on major releases?

What is it about having to prod and ask Hoijui and thus annoying him that is so much better than just putting it in the source code download and saving the hassle?

Also, why have you implemented your version checking this way despite having 2 working alternatives proposed, one of which served us fine for 5 years, even though the people who need it are the people who wont be able to use it?

I appreciate that you've put effort into this but ridiculing me and belittling me offers no help. But most importantly, avoiding and ignoring the question doesnt either!

I don't want to have to ask you things, I want to just get on with stuff, but because of the way you've set things up, I cant do that, and you don't have any intention of fixing that. These are the consequences of that decision, so don't complain that your involvement is needed when it shouldn't.

[hoijui]

i wanted to offer help to AF, with his officially unsupported method of compiling, before the problem even came into existence. that obviously was a bad mood, as it is not possible to discuss with AF in a useful way.
it was much as i tried to depict in my fake chat log, that he assumed shit and raged as if they were facts, before i even could start to explain the basics.
the assumptions were wrong, but he already was too much in rage and blame and tutoring mood.. unable to stop. this is common for AF, and it wastes a lot of time and costs mental health credits (and i consider it very rude and un-nice of AF to do this to me *mumieeee*), for no possible gain for anyone except AF. if anyone else would have a problem, they could still come to me. i was sticking much closer to the truth then AF was, but i just do not care explaining all where he went wrong. luckily, i do not have to justify to anyone that does not already agree with me.

just in case i was not clear enough:
if there is a real problem, and someone that is able to communicate in an acceptable way with me, i will discuss it with them, if i have time/feel responsible. the moment in which AF is able to comply with that are too seldom, and i now decided it is better to ignore him completely.

i also ignore AF on the forum now.

[AF]

The whole point of the new AI interface was that visual studio compilers wouldn't work with buildbot builds and we needed a C API. This is what won you support, this is what got you where you are now. Nobody but you abandoned visual studio support, and we were happy to fix bugs when they cropped up.

This is the bed you made, don't blame us for architectural flaws of tour own doing, and don't disrespect developers who have spent literally thousands of hours coding and testing. AOs are a lot of hard but rewarding work. Anyone can write an API, the question is can you maintain and support it effectively, can you moderate this forum a a mature adult and can you be responsible.

If you can't then perhaps your better off moving to core engine development and letting the AI debs maintain the AI interface as we always have done. We appreciate the time and effort you put in but right now your being counterproductive, and your creating problems not fixing them, and your answer is to alienate your primary userbase.