I can't even begin to imagine what you mean by this.Caydr wrote: Just get out, I'm not going to waste my time on you.
Get out of what? This isn't your planetannihilation forums, are you confused?
Absolute Annihilation: Spring[old]
Moderator: Moderators
Get out of this thread and stop bothering me with your ignorance.
You've said that I'm doing a bad job of managing this mod - which is arguably the most played one in the Spring lobby at this moment.
You've called me a dictator based on the fact that I don't give a damn what someone has to say when they can't give a damn to present a real argument.
You've suggested splintering AA on the basis that I don't care about feedback - which I obviously do, if you had ever read my forum or even any of the posts in this thread where I gratefully requested and accepted feedback on numerous occasions. How about the way I spend a dozen extra hours working on the mod so as to make it suit people with different tastes, with the F and B variants? How about the fact that I've spent many hundreds of hours on this mod and asked nothing in return?
And on top of it all, I have reason to doubt that you have ever even PLAYED thid mod for more than 5 minutes, if at all, yet you feel comfortable making all the above arguments. You've come into the middle of another person's argument and started preaching ignorance. Just go away.
You've said that I'm doing a bad job of managing this mod - which is arguably the most played one in the Spring lobby at this moment.
You've called me a dictator based on the fact that I don't give a damn what someone has to say when they can't give a damn to present a real argument.
You've suggested splintering AA on the basis that I don't care about feedback - which I obviously do, if you had ever read my forum or even any of the posts in this thread where I gratefully requested and accepted feedback on numerous occasions. How about the way I spend a dozen extra hours working on the mod so as to make it suit people with different tastes, with the F and B variants? How about the fact that I've spent many hundreds of hours on this mod and asked nothing in return?
And on top of it all, I have reason to doubt that you have ever even PLAYED thid mod for more than 5 minutes, if at all, yet you feel comfortable making all the above arguments. You've come into the middle of another person's argument and started preaching ignorance. Just go away.
Last edited by Caydr on 16 Dec 2005, 07:25, edited 1 time in total.
I assure you "caydr," you are mistaken. Not that I expect you to listen.
This is the way that open-source projects work, ok? The big-boy thing to do in these situations is stop bickering and whining and 'put up.' If you want something the existing development team isn't interested in doing- you always have the option of doing the work yourself.
This is the way that open-source projects work, ok? The big-boy thing to do in these situations is stop bickering and whining and 'put up.' If you want something the existing development team isn't interested in doing- you always have the option of doing the work yourself.
Last edited by mother on 16 Dec 2005, 07:31, edited 1 time in total.
Mistaken on what of the above grounds? Did you not say I was doing a bad job? Did you not call me a dictator? Did you not claim I don't care about feedback? Did you not suggest splintering AA for no reason? And have you truthfully ever even played AA? I'm going to bed now after having spent the better part of the day working on this mod as well as two others. For free. Asking nothing in return but, perhaps, just a little respect. Go away.
No I didnt say that, I didnt call you a dictator, nor suggested 'splintering' AA for 'no reason,' and I've played AA a lot.Caydr wrote:Mistaken on what of the above grounds? Did you not say I was doing a bad job? Did you not call me a dictator? Did you not claim I don't care about feedback? Did you not suggest splintering AA for no reason? And have you truthfully ever even played AA? I'm going to bed now after having spent the better part of the day working on this mod as well as two others. For free. Asking nothing in return but, perhaps, just a little respect. Go away.
Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar?
[sorry couldn't resist]You would recieve respect if you didnt squander it. I suspect that any work you do on AA is for your own ego- it sure as heck doesn't seem like it is for the community here...
I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop and for you to swear off Spring (again) and only come back when someone had the gall to take you up on your offer of 'do[ing] the porting yourself'.
Egads... Enough already.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
caydr
exactly what the fuck was that for dude?
It makes a difference in mass numbers.
my testing with drex tonight opend up a few things I didn't think of before.
Now to be honest I was really upset when I found the energy and storage units only hold 1k now. THat hurts.
You know, mebbie I should send you the demo or put up for download the demo so you can see where I'm coming from.
We are trying to do good and fair tests here but it's not that possible in spring. It just isn't. I trust your judgement but you have some odd balancing instincts.
I said anni laser because sound is the same, looks the same. I never said it had as much power and when I refer to ota I'm talking OTA not OTA AA.
I like aa a lot, but some of the positive changes introduce probelms.
For example, the merl, it shoots straight up and then straight down, but it's slow to the point it can't even hit a sumo walking. (I have a demo of that too). That makes it awesome for base busting but terrible as an attack unit.
In OTA it shot up a little ways and then when Diagonally at it's target and hit most of the time. Different mod different specs, I understand that, but it take a unit away from the attack force. Now if the thing you are attacking walkis in the middle or near your merls, they kill themselves. I'm not saying that it should be changed, I'm just saying that it poses a new difficulty.
The change to the mav. It was a good change but a little overdone I think. Consider this: mavs fire quickly, each mav shot does 25 less damage. Which means that if you have 5 mavs in a force they do 125 damage less every time they shoot, with the refire rate it adds up quickly. Maybe 305 would be reasonable? I don't really think increasing the cost was necessary (now that I have had time to test the new changes), but on the other hand I don't think it makes THAT much of a difference.
Maybe every unit should have it's counter combo? Just an idea, but balancing this stuff is tedius as hell.
10 golies can kill and orcone and only lose four gollies. Sad but true. Makes me rethink using mechs.
I agree with drex, sumo golli and emp spider are overpowered.
I understand you being upset, but I don't think telling me to fuck off was the correct way to deal with it. Hell me and drex argued all night, and we never argue lol. I think ultimately he's right for the most part tho.
Problem with balancing things is that you have to factor cost, damage done, etc. Very hard to deal with. Now I'm wishing I had just kept my mouth shut and dealt with it. Or just play arm like most people :D
BTW we the community are just trying to voice our opinions about a mod we all like. There is nothing wrong with that. We are only trying to improve it. Stop taking it personally.
BTW thanks for being an ahole to me here on the forums, that just made my day that much better /sarcasm
exactly what the fuck was that for dude?
It makes a difference in mass numbers.
my testing with drex tonight opend up a few things I didn't think of before.
Now to be honest I was really upset when I found the energy and storage units only hold 1k now. THat hurts.
You know, mebbie I should send you the demo or put up for download the demo so you can see where I'm coming from.
We are trying to do good and fair tests here but it's not that possible in spring. It just isn't. I trust your judgement but you have some odd balancing instincts.
I said anni laser because sound is the same, looks the same. I never said it had as much power and when I refer to ota I'm talking OTA not OTA AA.
I like aa a lot, but some of the positive changes introduce probelms.
For example, the merl, it shoots straight up and then straight down, but it's slow to the point it can't even hit a sumo walking. (I have a demo of that too). That makes it awesome for base busting but terrible as an attack unit.
In OTA it shot up a little ways and then when Diagonally at it's target and hit most of the time. Different mod different specs, I understand that, but it take a unit away from the attack force. Now if the thing you are attacking walkis in the middle or near your merls, they kill themselves. I'm not saying that it should be changed, I'm just saying that it poses a new difficulty.
The change to the mav. It was a good change but a little overdone I think. Consider this: mavs fire quickly, each mav shot does 25 less damage. Which means that if you have 5 mavs in a force they do 125 damage less every time they shoot, with the refire rate it adds up quickly. Maybe 305 would be reasonable? I don't really think increasing the cost was necessary (now that I have had time to test the new changes), but on the other hand I don't think it makes THAT much of a difference.
Maybe every unit should have it's counter combo? Just an idea, but balancing this stuff is tedius as hell.
10 golies can kill and orcone and only lose four gollies. Sad but true. Makes me rethink using mechs.
I agree with drex, sumo golli and emp spider are overpowered.
I understand you being upset, but I don't think telling me to fuck off was the correct way to deal with it. Hell me and drex argued all night, and we never argue lol. I think ultimately he's right for the most part tho.
Problem with balancing things is that you have to factor cost, damage done, etc. Very hard to deal with. Now I'm wishing I had just kept my mouth shut and dealt with it. Or just play arm like most people :D
BTW we the community are just trying to voice our opinions about a mod we all like. There is nothing wrong with that. We are only trying to improve it. Stop taking it personally.
BTW thanks for being an ahole to me here on the forums, that just made my day that much better /sarcasm
"Mother":
I make this mod for the enjoyment of my close friends. A group of us here will often play together. I post it online for the enjoyment of others. Where in this am I being a glory hog?
The reason I came back is because all of the above had reversed or been corrected. It was not because someone had converted it in my stead and I was angry or something. Yeah, someone converted it, and I asked them to not release it - this was because I had already partially completed a proper conversion, utilizing tons of Spring's unique features - I didn't want any confusion about which mod was the official release, and I didn't want people to think I'd given up on the idea. And frankly, I didn't want anyone to play the hackjob converted AA and then write off AA forever when half the things were massively wrong. You can't just slap a modinfo file into an OTA:AA archive and expect it to play worth a damn in Spring. There's no need to read between the lines and see ulterior motives... they don't exist.
@Forboding:
That was for a completely irrational post. I refuted every point, sorry if I didn't do it gently, but I get enough similar emails every day that I've given up on the diplomatic approach. I didn't mean to offend you, honest. If you want to contribute to the mod's development, I encourage you to make a post that is backed by verifiable evidence. For instance, your complaint about storage buildings not having enough storage - as stated in the FAQ, this is counterbalanced by a corresponding increase to the amount of storage that resourcing buildings have - moho extractors, fusions, etc. The point about mavericks is also not entirely fair. If it was a 25 damage reduction to, say, a stumpy's firepower, it would be major. But a maverick pours out 290 damage *every second*, as opposed to 315 damage again every second. The difference would never have even been noticed if I hadn't mentioned it. Sigh... sorry if I "flew off the handle" on this one, I didn't intend to hurt your feelings. But again, I expect a certain amount of etiquette - please quit with the swearing. It's unnecessary and I generally ignore or purposefully be, let's say, unkind to people who can't get a word in edgewise without uttering a curse of some kind.
nor suggested 'splintering' AA for 'no reason,'
The fact that you personally have some grudge against me is an actual reason to fragment a long-lasting mod development?I think we better just start with the current AA and fork off
Caydr doesn't care about anyone but Caydr, and is most unpleasant about it. Why put up with him?
I didnt call you a dictator
Huh?You can be the brutal dictator that you get off being
I just don't understand you. Where do you get off saying this? What have I done to you that gives you the impression I'm in this for the glory? There's no glory to be had, I'm just making a mod...I suspect that any work you do on AA is for your own ego- it sure as heck doesn't seem like it is for the community here...
I make this mod for the enjoyment of my close friends. A group of us here will often play together. I post it online for the enjoyment of others. Where in this am I being a glory hog?I "dropped off" Spring initially when I quickly realized that it was not yet in a playable state. There was no multiplayer lobby to speak of, capturing units was impossible, online play was unstable, the game itself was unstable, it was poorly documented, paralyzing units were impossible, artillery could not be balanced, barrells flew off, turrets refused to rotate, entire weapon categories didn't operate as they did in OTA, scripts gave constant errors, there was a tiny player base, all OTA:AA players wanted me to continue working on the OTA version, need I go on? I can. This is just the tip of the iceberg.I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop and for you to swear off Spring (again) and only come back when someone had the gall to take you up on your offer of 'do[ing] the porting yourself'.
The reason I came back is because all of the above had reversed or been corrected. It was not because someone had converted it in my stead and I was angry or something. Yeah, someone converted it, and I asked them to not release it - this was because I had already partially completed a proper conversion, utilizing tons of Spring's unique features - I didn't want any confusion about which mod was the official release, and I didn't want people to think I'd given up on the idea. And frankly, I didn't want anyone to play the hackjob converted AA and then write off AA forever when half the things were massively wrong. You can't just slap a modinfo file into an OTA:AA archive and expect it to play worth a damn in Spring. There's no need to read between the lines and see ulterior motives... they don't exist.
@Forboding:
That was for a completely irrational post. I refuted every point, sorry if I didn't do it gently, but I get enough similar emails every day that I've given up on the diplomatic approach. I didn't mean to offend you, honest. If you want to contribute to the mod's development, I encourage you to make a post that is backed by verifiable evidence. For instance, your complaint about storage buildings not having enough storage - as stated in the FAQ, this is counterbalanced by a corresponding increase to the amount of storage that resourcing buildings have - moho extractors, fusions, etc. The point about mavericks is also not entirely fair. If it was a 25 damage reduction to, say, a stumpy's firepower, it would be major. But a maverick pours out 290 damage *every second*, as opposed to 315 damage again every second. The difference would never have even been noticed if I hadn't mentioned it. Sigh... sorry if I "flew off the handle" on this one, I didn't intend to hurt your feelings. But again, I expect a certain amount of etiquette - please quit with the swearing. It's unnecessary and I generally ignore or purposefully be, let's say, unkind to people who can't get a word in edgewise without uttering a curse of some kind.
Last edited by Caydr on 16 Dec 2005, 08:36, edited 7 times in total.
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smokeynseinor
- Posts: 44
- Joined: 21 Oct 2004, 12:19
10 Gollies should not kill an Orcone if you are using it effectivley. The BLOD is powerful and when you manouvre the orcone carefully I don't see why you couldnt take out 10 Gollies. I shall test.
As for Caydr getting pissed off, Who cares? Hell I've known him for about a year now and the amount of hard work he puts into AA outweighs the time hes an asshole so it hardly matters.
As for Caydr getting pissed off, Who cares? Hell I've known him for about a year now and the amount of hard work he puts into AA outweighs the time hes an asshole so it hardly matters.
You are civil most of the time. Just when you are not civil, people tend to notice. People also tend to remeber the times when others are not civil, and forget the times they are.
The only real way to balance these things is through playing repetedly, and working out what combinations work. If one combination/unit is winning to much, then it is over powered. These tests shouldnt really count for anything. When are you really going to find 2 armys of bots neatly layed out in a square duking it off against one another without any support from Arty, Air, or other units?
And how the hell are Merls ment to be assult vehicles? They are artilliary. Not assult.
The only real way to balance these things is through playing repetedly, and working out what combinations work. If one combination/unit is winning to much, then it is over powered. These tests shouldnt really count for anything. When are you really going to find 2 armys of bots neatly layed out in a square duking it off against one another without any support from Arty, Air, or other units?
And how the hell are Merls ment to be assult vehicles? They are artilliary. Not assult.
LOL!!!
Maybe some of you should start a "Caydr Hater" club? Perhaps that would take up enough of your spare time as to not take things to heart so much to call people names.
Are there no win-win situations anymore? People work their butts off to create something and they're called assholes.
I wonder if I can put an "asshole filter" on my software so y'all can't use it.
-Buggi
Maybe some of you should start a "Caydr Hater" club? Perhaps that would take up enough of your spare time as to not take things to heart so much to call people names.
Are there no win-win situations anymore? People work their butts off to create something and they're called assholes.
I wonder if I can put an "asshole filter" on my software so y'all can't use it.
-Buggi
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smokeynseinor
- Posts: 44
- Joined: 21 Oct 2004, 12:19
IMO Cadyr, makes a good mod, makes all kinds of good things, but he does hav a bit of an ego. And sometimes he reacts a bit too fast and too harsh!
Cadyr, if ppl don't like you, just let it be. Fighting them is just pointless imo. And it only makes the feeling over this forum and over eachother worse.
For everybody,
Be wise and stop flaming, or be arrogant and flame.
Your Choice..
NOiZE
Cadyr, if ppl don't like you, just let it be. Fighting them is just pointless imo. And it only makes the feeling over this forum and over eachother worse.
For everybody,
Be wise and stop flaming, or be arrogant and flame.
Your Choice..
NOiZE
C`mon you`re all good guys, pass the peacepipe around and let`s get along. It`s soon christmas 
Just learn something from this. Caydr wants solid evidence regarding balance changes (which is understandable imo). Mother & co wants to be met with civility which is quite understandable as well.
Now you know and can avoid each others "soft spots"
Better to kiss and make up then to let stuff like this degrade into some kind of silly feud. Those things easily ruins small communitys like this one.
Just learn something from this. Caydr wants solid evidence regarding balance changes (which is understandable imo). Mother & co wants to be met with civility which is quite understandable as well.
Now you know and can avoid each others "soft spots"
Better to kiss and make up then to let stuff like this degrade into some kind of silly feud. Those things easily ruins small communitys like this one.
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smokingwreckage
- Posts: 327
- Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 11:40
The kid in the picture looks really happy.
You know what makes me really happy?
Mods. I love mods. I play all sorts of mods for all sorts of games. I play them and I think to myself "It is so nice someone put this together and let me mess with it too, for free."
I like mods so much, I play (for example, in OTA) XTA, AA, and UTASP, and original TA, all interchangeably, and every time it's like a whole new experience messing around with these wonderful variants that people have made and charged me nothing for.
Imagine one day I met a fellow, and he gave me a deck of cards and said, "Hey, this card game is great. I'm gonna give you some cards, so you can play it too. I made it up. Tell me if you like it." I go home and I play a game, and a mate beats hell outta me with the Ace of Spades. So then I go back to where I met the fellow and I start screaming at him: "YOU STUPID M****F****! THIS GAME IS BORKED! THE ACE OF SPADES OWNS ALL! YOU MADE ME LOOK STUPID IN FRONT OF MY MATES! YOU S*** EATING MONKEY ********ER! DIE! DIE AND GO TO HELL! I CARRIED THESE CARDS ALL THE WAY HOME AND THEY TOOK UP SPACE ON MY TABLE AND YOU RIPPED ME OFF!"
Would that make me a psychotic irrational arsehole who needed his arse kicked? Yes, yes it would. And yet I see this behaviour towards mod makers ALL THE TIME. I'm not talking just about Caydr or saying Caydr is a shining angelic paragon of virtue. What I AM saying is when someone gives you something FOR FREE, that they made, even if it's lame, you say "thank you" not "you dictatorial ass" or "hey this gift is lame compared to the $3000 stuff I saw in the shop window and am too tight-arsed to buy, make it like that or I'll spray graffiti on your house."
Now, you might say "but caydr is abrasive and harsh!". Indeed he may be. But he still lets you mess about with his mod for free. Remember my example? What if the card giving-out guy had included notes for play that said "These are the rules. Don't screw them up, my game is a thing of beauty, I rule." Would it be any more acceptable for me to start screaming at him: "YOU STUPID M****F****! THIS GAME IS BORKED! THE ACE OF SPADES OWNS ALL! YOU MADE ME LOOK STUPID IN FRONT OF MY MATES! YOU S*** EATING MONKEY ********ER! DIE! DIE AND GO TO HELL! I CARRIED THESE CARDS ALL THE WAY HOME AND THEY TOOK UP SPACE ON MY TABLE AND YOU RIPPED ME OFF!"
No. No it wouldn't. In fact to do so would not only not be acceptable, it would make me a psychotic irrational arsehole who needed his arse kicked.
Do I need to turn this into some sort of talking-to-modders flowchart, just so everyone can see what I'm talking about? I can keep going if you like. Surely everyone here is smart enough to extrapolate my argument for themselves.
You know what makes me really happy?
Mods. I love mods. I play all sorts of mods for all sorts of games. I play them and I think to myself "It is so nice someone put this together and let me mess with it too, for free."
I like mods so much, I play (for example, in OTA) XTA, AA, and UTASP, and original TA, all interchangeably, and every time it's like a whole new experience messing around with these wonderful variants that people have made and charged me nothing for.
Imagine one day I met a fellow, and he gave me a deck of cards and said, "Hey, this card game is great. I'm gonna give you some cards, so you can play it too. I made it up. Tell me if you like it." I go home and I play a game, and a mate beats hell outta me with the Ace of Spades. So then I go back to where I met the fellow and I start screaming at him: "YOU STUPID M****F****! THIS GAME IS BORKED! THE ACE OF SPADES OWNS ALL! YOU MADE ME LOOK STUPID IN FRONT OF MY MATES! YOU S*** EATING MONKEY ********ER! DIE! DIE AND GO TO HELL! I CARRIED THESE CARDS ALL THE WAY HOME AND THEY TOOK UP SPACE ON MY TABLE AND YOU RIPPED ME OFF!"
Would that make me a psychotic irrational arsehole who needed his arse kicked? Yes, yes it would. And yet I see this behaviour towards mod makers ALL THE TIME. I'm not talking just about Caydr or saying Caydr is a shining angelic paragon of virtue. What I AM saying is when someone gives you something FOR FREE, that they made, even if it's lame, you say "thank you" not "you dictatorial ass" or "hey this gift is lame compared to the $3000 stuff I saw in the shop window and am too tight-arsed to buy, make it like that or I'll spray graffiti on your house."
Now, you might say "but caydr is abrasive and harsh!". Indeed he may be. But he still lets you mess about with his mod for free. Remember my example? What if the card giving-out guy had included notes for play that said "These are the rules. Don't screw them up, my game is a thing of beauty, I rule." Would it be any more acceptable for me to start screaming at him: "YOU STUPID M****F****! THIS GAME IS BORKED! THE ACE OF SPADES OWNS ALL! YOU MADE ME LOOK STUPID IN FRONT OF MY MATES! YOU S*** EATING MONKEY ********ER! DIE! DIE AND GO TO HELL! I CARRIED THESE CARDS ALL THE WAY HOME AND THEY TOOK UP SPACE ON MY TABLE AND YOU RIPPED ME OFF!"
No. No it wouldn't. In fact to do so would not only not be acceptable, it would make me a psychotic irrational arsehole who needed his arse kicked.
Do I need to turn this into some sort of talking-to-modders flowchart, just so everyone can see what I'm talking about? I can keep going if you like. Surely everyone here is smart enough to extrapolate my argument for themselves.
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smokingwreckage
- Posts: 327
- Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 11:40
A short temper is a different thing to small intellectual horizons, as I am sure you are well aware. Even then, it doesn't take a particularly short temper to get pissed off with something not working. However after venting Caydr goes right back to work making free stuff to give us.IMSabbel wrote: It seems he just has a REALLY small intellectual horizon, his skills (or lack thereof) nothwithstanding.
You people would flame Santa Claus.
A tacktical nuke =(
I found out that tacktical nuke is just nothing - antinuke devices shoots nukes.
It cost a lot, very slow, low ranged vs usuall nukes. So why i need to build these tacktical nukes if i can build usual one?
If it will not be shooted by antinukes - it can become good defence softning unit togheter with nuke bombers and artlery. Also it will help in killing mass attcking force so it can be used for pretection.
So what is my proposition: do two types of nukes (big and small).
Big - only stationary, very heavy damage, big radius of explosion. Needed to kill bases after antinukes are killed by bombers/other units. Can be killed only by stationary antinukes.
Small. Smaller radius, smaller damage. These are nuke bombers and tacktical nukes. Can be killed only mobile flanks =) (why not?) or mobile antinukes vehiles.
That will make game much more intresting adding new edge of strategy - a new layer of defence/attack force.
Also i am just intresting - can we make bombers stronger? They are so yeasily kiled in aa, that i have never setn it was used by anybody. It really means athat they are unpowered.
It cost a lot, very slow, low ranged vs usuall nukes. So why i need to build these tacktical nukes if i can build usual one?
If it will not be shooted by antinukes - it can become good defence softning unit togheter with nuke bombers and artlery. Also it will help in killing mass attcking force so it can be used for pretection.
So what is my proposition: do two types of nukes (big and small).
Big - only stationary, very heavy damage, big radius of explosion. Needed to kill bases after antinukes are killed by bombers/other units. Can be killed only by stationary antinukes.
Small. Smaller radius, smaller damage. These are nuke bombers and tacktical nukes. Can be killed only mobile flanks =) (why not?) or mobile antinukes vehiles.
That will make game much more intresting adding new edge of strategy - a new layer of defence/attack force.
Also i am just intresting - can we make bombers stronger? They are so yeasily kiled in aa, that i have never setn it was used by anybody. It really means athat they are unpowered.