A formal Reply to "The Decline of BA" - And a "Suggestion"

[CarRepairer]

I couldn't agree more about the spec thing. When I arrived to Spring I was absolutely flabbergasted that people would seriously suggest that a person new to the game should spectate first. At the time it seemed like the most demented thing ever. People download games to play them. Now I spectate 90% of the time as I'm a modder, but I can still put myself in the shoes of someone who is a new arrival. Seriously, stop asking people to spec. It's almost insulting, as though they don't deserve to have fun while you do.

Sorry but no. I am not going to wait for several minutes to set up a game with decent teams etc, only to have some completely clueless newbie ruin the experience for everybody else involved. It is not insulting to say "we all have several years of experience, and your inclusion in this game will be to the detriment of both the game itself, and the enjoyment of all other parties", and its extremely naive to assume that a newbie can waltz into a game as complex as this (I mean the control system alone...) and hope to even remotely compete with top level players. I don't host rank limited matches, not only cos of "hilarious" smurfing, but also specifically so that newbies can join and spec, and learn 10x faster than if they just threw themselves into DSD games.

You have a right to host a game and let whomever you want play, such as only vets. But that doesn't change the fact that the newb came here to play, doesn't want to spec, and telling him he should spectate before playing is what makes Spring community seem ridiculous. Don't take my word for it, I was just agreeing with the OP.

At least the point should be made that you can tell the guy he needs more experience to join this game, has the option to spec your game but the best way for him to learn is to play small team games with other players of his rank, or single player campaigns that are designed to help. Outright telling him he should not play yet is something that vets around here really need to realize is ridiculous. There is almost no video game out there that makes you watch stuff for hours before playing (feel free to come up with rare examples if you feel like arguing with me but it won't change the point).

[CarRepairer]

I couldn't agree more about the spec thing. When I arrived to Spring I was absolutely flabbergasted that people would seriously suggest that a person new to the game should spectate first. At the time it seemed like the most demented thing ever. People download games to play them. Now I spectate 90% of the time as I'm a modder, but I can still put myself in the shoes of someone who is a new arrival. Seriously, stop asking people to spec. It's almost insulting, as though they don't deserve to have fun while you do.

Sorry but no. I am not going to wait for several minutes to set up a game with decent teams etc, only to have some completely clueless newbie ruin the experience for everybody else involved. It is not insulting to say "we all have several years of experience, and your inclusion in this game will be to the detriment of both the game itself, and the enjoyment of all other parties", and its extremely naive to assume that a newbie can waltz into a game as complex as this (I mean the control system alone...) and hope to even remotely compete with top level players. I don't host rank limited matches, not only cos of "hilarious" smurfing, but also specifically so that newbies can join and spec, and learn 10x faster than if they just threw themselves into DSD games.

You have a right to host a game and let whomever you want play, such as only vets. But that doesn't change the fact that the newb came here to play, doesn't want to spec, and telling him he should spectate before playing is what makes Spring community seem ridiculous. Don't take my word for it, I was just agreeing with the OP.

At least the point should be made that you can tell the guy he needs more experience to join this game, has the option to spec your game but the best way for him to learn is to play small team games with other players of his rank, or single player campaigns that are designed to help. Outright telling him he should not play yet is something that vets around here really need to realize is ridiculous. There is almost no video game out there that makes you watch stuff for hours before playing (feel free to come up with rare examples if you feel like arguing with me but it won't change the point).

[Hobo Joe]

I couldn't agree more about the spec thing. When I arrived to Spring I was absolutely flabbergasted that people would seriously suggest that a person new to the game should spectate first. At the time it seemed like the most demented thing ever. People download games to play them. Now I spectate 90% of the time as I'm a modder, but I can still put myself in the shoes of someone who is a new arrival. Seriously, stop asking people to spec. It's almost insulting, as though they don't deserve to have fun while you do.

Sorry but no. I am not going to wait for several minutes to set up a game with decent teams etc, only to have some completely clueless newbie ruin the experience for everybody else involved. It is not insulting to say "we all have several years of experience, and your inclusion in this game will be to the detriment of both the game itself, and the enjoyment of all other parties", and its extremely naive to assume that a newbie can waltz into a game as complex as this (I mean the control system alone...) and hope to even remotely compete with top level players. I don't host rank limited matches, not only cos of "hilarious" smurfing, but also specifically so that newbies can join and spec, and learn 10x faster than if they just threw themselves into DSD games.

Newbies can join rank limited matches, they are automatically specced.


Also, you sound like a very un-fun person to play with.

[luckywaldo7]

No, pintle is a great person to play with, because he likes fair teams and challenging games and will play pretty much any mod in spring.

And a team-based competitive multi-player is inherently incompatible with casual gamers, not any way around that until missions start happening.

[Gota]

No, pintle is a great person to play with, because he likes fair teams and challenging games and will play pretty much any mod in spring.

And a team-based competitive multi-player is inherently incompatible with casual gamers, not any way around that until missions start happening.

who wants casual play should play games like Spore or even dead or alive.
If you play against a human you will always have to face the possibility of losing to a human,if its a 8v8 or a 1v1.

[pintle]

Also, you sound like a very un-fun person to play with.

I'm curious as to why you say that. Normally when a newbie does actually spectate one of my games, I will respond to their questions to the fullest of my ability, and if they are interested/receptive, spew Theoretical Annihilation at them till my keyboard breaks. I am also one of the few people I have ever seen responding to questions in #newbies or #main in a vaguely helpful manner.

...aaaand considering I only smurf extremely rarely (and quite transparently) I am very often the victim of lolnoob !balance (or manual stack).

I'm really not trying to be some elitist douche, just pointing out that at the end of a day, a spring game is a competition, and we have experience ranks for a reason.

As for examples to contradict the statement about spec before play: nearly every RTS has a play thru tutorial, and the vast majority of people play solo play vs AI before multiplayer. Nearly all commercial games come with a list of controls/commands.

[babbles]

Oh, YOU were eltnip

[Hobo Joe]

Also, you sound like a very un-fun person to play with.

I'm curious as to why you say that. Normally when a newbie does actually spectate one of my games, I will respond to their questions to the fullest of my ability, and if they are interested/receptive, spew Theoretical Annihilation at them till my keyboard breaks. I am also one of the few people I have ever seen responding to questions in #newbies or #main in a vaguely helpful manner.

...aaaand considering I only smurf extremely rarely (and quite transparently) I am very often the victim of lolnoob !balance (or manual stack).

I'm really not trying to be some elitist douche, just pointing out that at the end of a day, a spring game is a competition, and we have experience ranks for a reason.

As for examples to contradict the statement about spec before play: nearly every RTS has a play thru tutorial, and the vast majority of people play solo play vs AI before multiplayer. Nearly all commercial games come with a list of controls/commands.

Well you sounded pretty uptight and elitist in your other post. I understand wanting to have more serious and balanced games for some good competition, but I think if a noob wants to play he should be allowed too, if you're in a public game with no rank limit, you should let them play. If you don't want to play with them, make a game private or add a rank limit. If smurfs can't join, well that's their problem, maybe they should not smurf and play their rank. The less people we have breaking balance the better.

[reshey]

I think there is something to OP original post.

Playing TA spring is less fun when it it the "blame" game. Whos fault is it. If you dont do something somebody whants, you get "idiot" poping up in your base, and with 7 other people different opinion exist. You are told to build units asp for the front, and the get "What a bad techer" in the tech spot etc.

Moderation, and easy ingame option to mute trolls would help.

Still DSD 8 vs 8 is one of the few game I like to play. It to much stress and micro on other maps. DsD is relaxing, and you get to get involved in epic battles with out the stress of many other maps.

I only like DsD type maps, and will stop playing if those game dissapar. (Altored, SSB, Tropical)

[Jools]

in all seriousness, can autohosts be abolished? who would make that decision/have the ability to remove them?

Autohosts aren't a problem in other mods than ba.

[smoth]

autohosting is a great help for gundam. Most of the 1.21 games played before the recent breaking of 1.21 were on autohost or me hosting to help.

[Pxtl]

Anybody read about the development of DOTA2?

DOTA is similar to BA's teamgames in terms of it being newbie-hostile. Like BA, an incompetent player isn't just letting his side down, he's actually *helping* the enemy. In BA, he's consuming metal-patches and feeding the enemy metal. In DOTA, he's feeding the enemy XP. And the game is *long* so you are stuck with this burden for the whole game.

Because of this, newbies absorb catastrophic amounts of verbal abuse even if they're merely mediocre-but-trying-to-learn.

Because of this, Valve is implementing a whole "apprenticeship" system where players get rewards for taking newbies under their wing.

Telling newbies to go spec is functionally the same as telling them to go play a different game.