Of Maestro's models, the only ones I'd consider using are the Airspeeder, the Lars Landspeeder, and TIE Fighter. The heavy Rebel tank is hideous, as are the walkers (they're supposed to be grey, not white, and Maestro's texturing has absolutely no detail) , and everything else is either not a SWTA unit or no better-looking than our stuff. Sorry zwzsg. I know you have this long-time deep-seeded hatred for our model work, which I never understood, but I have to severely object to your assertion that all of Maestro's work is better than HAN's and Kami's.
Sorry for mucking up your topic, Gnome and Zsinj.
Star Wars Spring 1.0
Moderator: Moderators
-
Archangel of Death
- Posts: 854
- Joined: 28 Jan 2005, 18:15
Just figured I do a quick, thorough check for your first release, just as a friendly member of the communityWhy you were paying that much attention to notice I'll never understandArchangel of Death wrote:Just did a once over of all the units, got a few points to bring up.
Rebel Espo security walker: Only fires from one laser, doesn't cycle barrels..
Nope, not a clue. Maybe just try changing the script around randomly? Never worked for me, but I'm just plain unlucky.The problem only seems to stem from force firing and firing at targets too closely. I'm not sure there's anything we can do to resolve it without scrapping the animations, so if you have any ideas, do share.Rebel Swoop Scout Vehicle: has trouble attacking. Obvious problems at the ground, from some angles against enemy units. Line a couple of the up parallel and watched them "wave" at each other for a couple minutes.
No idea, but AA hawks don't have this problem. Anyone volunteers to do an in depth study of what aircraft have/don't have this problem across multiple mods?It's been doing this since about 0.50. XTA does it for me as well, so I think it's an engine thing. Is there a way to get around it?Also, I don't have any idea what might cause it, but if tacking control of many (or all? didn't check them all) of the aircraft while they are landed, they won't take off properly.
I will agree with Gnome about Maestros units, they don't fit SWTA and the only improvment you could get out of it is better looking TIE cockpits, nothing else (just my opinion of course).
The veteran trooper only has trouble firing his blaster when attacking the ground, they seem to favor the grenades then mostly while they favor the blaster when attacking units, don't know why though. But anyway, no "real" problem as such. There are other units which have minor issues when attacking the ground too, but nothing that really has an effect on gameplay as far as I've noticed.
The AT-ST is powerful enough as it is, the fighter tank works just fine if you micro it (quite powerful then too). The swoop isn't something that we can do anything about according to Gnome, and though I've encountered the problem myself it is at most an annoyance in the early game.
Oh, and 'lo 'flu!
The veteran trooper only has trouble firing his blaster when attacking the ground, they seem to favor the grenades then mostly while they favor the blaster when attacking units, don't know why though. But anyway, no "real" problem as such. There are other units which have minor issues when attacking the ground too, but nothing that really has an effect on gameplay as far as I've noticed.
The AT-ST is powerful enough as it is, the fighter tank works just fine if you micro it (quite powerful then too). The swoop isn't something that we can do anything about according to Gnome, and though I've encountered the problem myself it is at most an annoyance in the early game.
Oh, and 'lo 'flu!
One thing I might suggest is very rapidly putting putting up a SWTA Strategy section in SWTA's Wiki entry, to make it easier for newer players to get used to. I just spanked some players who were top-ranked at OTA and they were complaining about how unbalanced the mod was and how they didnt like it, etc.
So I figure that putting up some basic strategy/gameplay tips would remove a barrier to adoption.
BTW, i started a section, other/more expierenced peeps might want to put more info up.
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/wiki/SWTA#Strategy
So I figure that putting up some basic strategy/gameplay tips would remove a barrier to adoption.
BTW, i started a section, other/more expierenced peeps might want to put more info up.
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/wiki/SWTA#Strategy
I know that in the movies the Battle Droid and the B.D. Captain are 99% identical, but in-game you don't know how many captain there are unless you zoom on your unit group.
it could be better to see from distance if you have at least 1 of them
I think that it could be better to have a little bigger Captain, to have its entire backpack teamcoloured and, if possible, a different set of sounds.
another thing; the reb commando is a bit unuseful so why not adding the sniper rifle?
ps. if you're interested i'm working on a homing spider droid now
it could be better to see from distance if you have at least 1 of them
I think that it could be better to have a little bigger Captain, to have its entire backpack teamcoloured and, if possible, a different set of sounds.
another thing; the reb commando is a bit unuseful so why not adding the sniper rifle?
ps. if you're interested i'm working on a homing spider droid now
Alright, I'll see what can be done to help distinguish them. Perhaps I could also give the captain a bigger gun, that certainly helps when telling stormtroopers apart.
The reason that never got a sniper rifle is because in OTA the sweetspots of infantry were constantly in motion to simulate inaccuracy of weapons against smaller targets, without sacrificing accuracy against larger targets (which they should have no problem hitting). However, this screwed up sniper aiming too, which is obviously a bad thing (sure, a sniper may miss once or twice, but you should expect him to hit more often than not). You also can't make the sniper shot have an area of effect, since then it'd be possible to take out multiple people (standing side by side for instance) in one shot, which would look bad. I suppose we could put it in as is if people really wanted it; maybe we could find a way around the sweetspot inaccuracy.
About the droids... we're still a bit wary on including them. It's not that they lack quality, it's just that it'd be overpowering for the Empire to give them even more stuff. You should really hop on IRC with us and discuss this balance stuff sometime.
The reason that never got a sniper rifle is because in OTA the sweetspots of infantry were constantly in motion to simulate inaccuracy of weapons against smaller targets, without sacrificing accuracy against larger targets (which they should have no problem hitting). However, this screwed up sniper aiming too, which is obviously a bad thing (sure, a sniper may miss once or twice, but you should expect him to hit more often than not). You also can't make the sniper shot have an area of effect, since then it'd be possible to take out multiple people (standing side by side for instance) in one shot, which would look bad. I suppose we could put it in as is if people really wanted it; maybe we could find a way around the sweetspot inaccuracy.
About the droids... we're still a bit wary on including them. It's not that they lack quality, it's just that it'd be overpowering for the Empire to give them even more stuff. You should really hop on IRC with us and discuss this balance stuff sometime.
-
GrOuNd_ZeRo
- Posts: 1370
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 01:10
It's not that I hate your model, they are very good, it's just that I happen to like more maestro's.Influenza wrote:Sorry zwzsg. I know you have this long-time deep-seeded hatred for our model work, which I never understood, ...
Anyway, sorry for bursting about that again, it doesn't belong here. Back on topic.
I'm very happy to have a pretty good Spring mod to play, it's very refreshing to at last have something else than Arm and Core to play with. (Ok,there's also that TLL mod, but it's not a TC) (And other TC are too experimental and wip to be really played online). Thought it is very hard to finish a SWS game, since even starting one without losing any player is a real challenge in itself. But all the random bug and crash and closing I had came from Spring itself, or its lobby, not SWS, I believe. And once the game has started and run fine, it doesn't crash afterward that often.
Oh, and since I can't help but point only what is bad even in the greatest stuff:
The, uh, reb I think, or was it imp, anyway, the metal maker and the tibanna geoplant use the same bui...err unitpic.
I noted that my stationnary defense had trouble firing over sandbag. Even when it looks like the sandbag is low enough to not block the line of fire, my turrets refuse to fire if the target isn't tall enough. I know it's probably pretty hard to fix, but it's disappointing to set a nice defense line under a sandbag wall, and have none of them fire when enemy comes.
Also, I think not having any cons in the droid factory make it confusing for noobs. So does making solar rely on wind. But that is matter to debate, and came from the faithfullness to SWTA during the porting. Ok so it's just that I thought two bad points were not enough so I'm trying to build a third.
But overall, yay!, first fully working good TC for Spring!
Heh, it's not the same buildpic, the models are just damn well near identical. Open them up and take a look for yourself!
Which defense turret had that problem? I know for a fact that Ewebs, Turbolasers, Missile turrets, Ion turrets, adv missile towers, and stationary artillery for the Imps have no problem firing over sandbags, and I know that golans and MRBs for the rebels at least have no problems. I don't recall Atgars having the problem, and Secure never mentioned it either. Perhaps there was a corpse or some other unit blocking the line of fire? That happens a lot...
The solars should have a floor energy production value... I forget what that floor is off the top of my head, but if the wind goes lower than that, they should still produce the minimum value they have defined. As for the droids, well, that's part of the balance: Droids are more powerful, and can be deadly if you rush them and play very aggressively, but the drawbacks are the metal cost of the factory and the fact that you have no construction unit. That's how I'm told it's supposed to work, anyway, I'm not quite an aggressive enough player to try it myself yet
Which defense turret had that problem? I know for a fact that Ewebs, Turbolasers, Missile turrets, Ion turrets, adv missile towers, and stationary artillery for the Imps have no problem firing over sandbags, and I know that golans and MRBs for the rebels at least have no problems. I don't recall Atgars having the problem, and Secure never mentioned it either. Perhaps there was a corpse or some other unit blocking the line of fire? That happens a lot...
The solars should have a floor energy production value... I forget what that floor is off the top of my head, but if the wind goes lower than that, they should still produce the minimum value they have defined. As for the droids, well, that's part of the balance: Droids are more powerful, and can be deadly if you rush them and play very aggressively, but the drawbacks are the metal cost of the factory and the fact that you have no construction unit. That's how I'm told it's supposed to work, anyway, I'm not quite an aggressive enough player to try it myself yet
no,no... sorry, it's my fault, i didn't explained wellAbout the droids... we're still a bit wary on including them. It's not that they lack quality, it's just that it'd be overpowering for the Empire to give them even more stuff.
I don't want more units for the Empire, the Homing S.D. is basically the same as an AT-AT and there isn't a reb counterpart ( :idea: except for the Viper droid that is a counterpart for everything...)
i'm making prequel units because I want a 2nd and 3rd races, Separatist and Old Republic, so if you plan to have 4-5 races, count me in for full help, otherwise I'll make a different SWprequel/dark empire mod
ps. a unit loaded by the gunship is actually able to activate its walking animation if you select it and give the order and sometimes a fully loaded gunship doesn't unload all the troopers
pps. in ota the sniper rifle killed only 1 infantry unit at time
ppps. set the commando and the tie phantom to init_cloacked=1;
Well, gnome, it depends on height of target, I think. I was wanting them to hit a mexx. The defense that looks like a radar dish and the one that looks like a machinegunn didn't fire. However, if the target is a sensor tower instead of a mexx, the one that looks like a radar dish fire. The one that look like a machinegun aimed but still did not fired. I checked, target was in range.
Oh and after noticing in a multi game, I tested alone, over a flat pristine map, before posting.
Or maybe it's that odd Spring bug I heard about when turret fail to notice there is an enemy to fire at? Still the tallest defense (golan) fired with the most ease.
Oh and after noticing in a multi game, I tested alone, over a flat pristine map, before posting.
Or maybe it's that odd Spring bug I heard about when turret fail to notice there is an enemy to fire at? Still the tallest defense (golan) fired with the most ease.
Plo: Ah, that was something I indeed wanted to do at some point. It would need quite a bit of work, though, since we'd have to fill out the sides a little bit more with stuff being shuffled around, and it'd probably be a bit difficult to balance, but it could be done in time. Perhaps after we finish the superweapons pack, we can focus on that. I still say you need to get on IRC of course :)
Not sure if I can resolve the walking animation issue.
You got the OTA sniper rifle working?
Do send that!
Alright. What about the spy?
zwzsg: Hmm, alright. I figured it'd be the Atgar with the problem, but I didn't think the MRB would have it as well (though it does make sense). Units in spring aim for the center of the hitbox, not the feet like in OTA, so that's why they can shoot at radars but not mexxes. I'm not sure there's much that can be done to resolve this; we could lower the sandbag's size, but that'd possibly decrease its efficiency and usefulness; or we could increase the height of the turrets a bit so they do fire over at all times. I'll put it on my to-do list. As long as they can still hit attacking units, though, it's not a *huge* problem IMO.
Not sure if I can resolve the walking animation issue.
You got the OTA sniper rifle working?
Do send that!Alright. What about the spy?
zwzsg: Hmm, alright. I figured it'd be the Atgar with the problem, but I didn't think the MRB would have it as well (though it does make sense). Units in spring aim for the center of the hitbox, not the feet like in OTA, so that's why they can shoot at radars but not mexxes. I'm not sure there's much that can be done to resolve this; we could lower the sandbag's size, but that'd possibly decrease its efficiency and usefulness; or we could increase the height of the turrets a bit so they do fire over at all times. I'll put it on my to-do list. As long as they can still hit attacking units, though, it's not a *huge* problem IMO.
-
Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
I am not averse to bulking up the droid lab build tree with the spider droid and the STAP. In my opinion, the droid lab is a little bit neglected in the imperial build tree. It is only really an option in the early game, and it is counter acted by the fact that the units cost more metal than infantry, have poor LOS (other than the droid captain and the probe droid) and cost energy to run (which adds up when you are using driods as a main attack force).
I think giving them the spider droid could make them a more viable option for imperial players, as well as giving the droid lab some importance in the middle game.
Of course, I think it would be necessary to give the rebels something to balance this; but we've discussed giving the R2 droid FARK-like abilities before, as well as a few other units which we have on the cards (bunker, tunnel system, etc).
I think giving them the spider droid could make them a more viable option for imperial players, as well as giving the droid lab some importance in the middle game.
Of course, I think it would be necessary to give the rebels something to balance this; but we've discussed giving the R2 droid FARK-like abilities before, as well as a few other units which we have on the cards (bunker, tunnel system, etc).
I can pwn most people in 1v1 or 2v1 with droid rush by 7-10 minutes mark if the map isn't too big; if it is, by the time my droids reach ,they have lots of defenses etc up. Ask the guys who i played many games with last night
BTW, even thou the droid plant costs more metal, when building oodles of battle droids, even if only 1 mexx is up, i'll still have a net intake of metal, which allows me to expand.
Personally, as nice an ideas as STAP would be ( I LVOE DROIDS! :D ) I tihnk it woudl unbalance the droid lab a bunch. The biggest droid lab drawback is that it has no fast scout unit; the barracsk have the swoop/speeder, but the probe droid is really really slow and less effective for finding stuff as maps get bigger. In fact, probe droids ONLY have a use in the early game because they're just too easy to kill afterwards. I can never remember building a probe droid after 3 minute mark becuase they never find anything before dying. A spider droid I dont think woudl hurt though.
Also, BIG PROBLEM: A lot of the time, defenses choose not to fire at certain units for whatevre reason. Turbolasers dont fire on infantry and droids unless I shoot at the ground. EWebs dont shoot at swoops/speeders. Even ewebs dont shoto at infantry all the time, and same wtih atgar for tanks and turbo etc. Big problem having to force fire at ground all the time.
BTW, even thou the droid plant costs more metal, when building oodles of battle droids, even if only 1 mexx is up, i'll still have a net intake of metal, which allows me to expand.
Personally, as nice an ideas as STAP would be ( I LVOE DROIDS! :D ) I tihnk it woudl unbalance the droid lab a bunch. The biggest droid lab drawback is that it has no fast scout unit; the barracsk have the swoop/speeder, but the probe droid is really really slow and less effective for finding stuff as maps get bigger. In fact, probe droids ONLY have a use in the early game because they're just too easy to kill afterwards. I can never remember building a probe droid after 3 minute mark becuase they never find anything before dying. A spider droid I dont think woudl hurt though.
Also, BIG PROBLEM: A lot of the time, defenses choose not to fire at certain units for whatevre reason. Turbolasers dont fire on infantry and droids unless I shoot at the ground. EWebs dont shoot at swoops/speeders. Even ewebs dont shoto at infantry all the time, and same wtih atgar for tanks and turbo etc. Big problem having to force fire at ground all the time.
Odd, I have never had any problems with my defences firing in my games. Make sure nothing is blocking its line of fire though, Spring is pretty cranky about such things.
I agree about the STAP though, there was even a discussion about it some time ago on the PA SWTA forum where Han I belive mentioned that they had already tried including it but found that with some micro it would simply be too powerful. I belive they had made it an air unit that time though, but I'm not entirely sure, it was some time ago after all. The droid plant got some heavy firepower in it anyway so giving it the STAP too isn't such a good idea.
The spider droid (I'm assuming you are talking about the dwarf spider droid) is something that could be considered, but I'm afraid the droid plant might become a bit too versatile if we give it an amphibious heavy anti-vehicle droid too.
I agree about the STAP though, there was even a discussion about it some time ago on the PA SWTA forum where Han I belive mentioned that they had already tried including it but found that with some micro it would simply be too powerful. I belive they had made it an air unit that time though, but I'm not entirely sure, it was some time ago after all. The droid plant got some heavy firepower in it anyway so giving it the STAP too isn't such a good idea.
The spider droid (I'm assuming you are talking about the dwarf spider droid) is something that could be considered, but I'm afraid the droid plant might become a bit too versatile if we give it an amphibious heavy anti-vehicle droid too.
Gnome, for the commando I didn't do nothing, i simply added an aiming animation, the area effect problem is not a real problem because it's difficult to kill 2 infantry units in one shot, plus 50% times it fire at vehicles so you don't notice it
http://rapidshare.de/files/9172151/rebcommando.zip.html
for the spy, actually it's the same as a cloacked commando but with better los (not so usefull). I hope in future to have C&C-like features like infiltration ecc.
I think that the astromech droid shouldn't be a resurrecter, there're other droids for that. in Ota I used an astromech for capturing but it was totally unusefull, so I converted it to a nano-helper but already it was not usefull.
so I suggest to use tech droids only for new Spring special features (in future) and to have a medical resurrecter droid only for infantry units (no vehicle resurrection)
http://rapidshare.de/files/9172151/rebcommando.zip.html
for the spy, actually it's the same as a cloacked commando but with better los (not so usefull). I hope in future to have C&C-like features like infiltration ecc.
I think that the astromech droid shouldn't be a resurrecter, there're other droids for that. in Ota I used an astromech for capturing but it was totally unusefull, so I converted it to a nano-helper but already it was not usefull.
so I suggest to use tech droids only for new Spring special features (in future) and to have a medical resurrecter droid only for infantry units (no vehicle resurrection)
I thought the astomech droid was usefull in SWTA...although it was a bit hard to get it near enough to capture anything (perhaps radar invisibility would help?) it was still good at helping building things like a FARK.
The droid additions sound neat
(along with the deactivation script)...I think a gungan would be a good counter to droids if it could be made.
The droid additions sound neat
(along with the deactivation script)...I think a gungan would be a good counter to droids if it could be made.Yeah, we were thinking about including the astromech as a FARK-like unit only the rebels would get, but it'd be something that's *very* hard to balance.
I'll check out the effectiveness of the Commando with the sniper rifle.
I've never noticed any defenses refusing to fire at things in the way you describe, dragon. I'm sure it's like Secure said: a line of fire problem.
I'll check out the effectiveness of the Commando with the sniper rifle.
I've never noticed any defenses refusing to fire at things in the way you describe, dragon. I'm sure it's like Secure said: a line of fire problem.