An opinion

[BlackLiger]

Not sure if this is 100% a good idea, but it seems to me that the projectiles are slow. It looks like the units are just lobbing them at each other, not actually fighting. Could we possibly try doubling all values of speeds, so that units move faster, shells fly faster etc? as a test to see what results are produced.

I accept that this may not be 100% perfect, but Spring just seems SLOOOOOW to me (when I can play it, I needs a new graphics card right now or I'd do this myself)

[clericvash]

Is it me or do you seem like the type that would always have +10 in TA because you hate long games + quit long games, cant actually play at normal speed etc...

[IMSabbel]

Dont be an ass.

Obviously he means the ratio units speed vs bullet speed.

As its possible to dodge many bullets from a 5 unit lenght distance, this could be understandable.

[NOiZE]

indeed i also think the blobs move too slow... in my next TLL version i'll give the blobs higher velocity's

[Zenka]

indeed i also think the blobs move too slow... in my next TLL version i'll give the blobs higher velocity's

hurray!

(This means I agree with the staement, bullets should go faster. Really, a guardion can fire a shot. The tank, on whitch it is targeted, can give gas and dodge the attack from standstil. I only thought Neo could do that.)

[jcnossen]

This is coupled with gravity though... if artillery gives a bullet a vertical speed of 50 m/s, with a gravity of 10 m/s^2, it takes 100/10=10 seconds before the bullet hits the ground again...
That probably means that you can dodge artillery fire in reality too, problem is you can't see it coming

[NOiZE]

i think that calculation is too simple zaphod..

first second it goes up 50 m second second it goes up 40 m third goes up 30 m etc..

[GrOuNd_ZeRo]

I agree, a tankshot should be fast and furious, atleast as fast as the Guass gun.

[jcnossen]

First second it goes up 50 m second second it goes up 40 m third goes up 30 m etc..

In 5 seconds, it will have a vertical speed of zero. In another 5 seconds, it will have a downward vertical speed of 50. At that point it will reach the ground.
Or to be a bit more mathematical:

speed = initialSpeed - gravity * t
position = initialSpeed * t - 0.5 * gravity * t^2 = 0
initialSpeed * t = 0.5 * gravity * t^2
initialSpeed = 0.5 * gravity * t
t = initialSpeed / (0.5 * gravity)
t = 2 * initialSpeed / gravity
t = 2 * 50 / 10 = 10 s

tada!
somehow highschool math get's more fun once you go further into academic math

[Gus]

Yup using SUVATS;

S= ut +1/2 at^2

=50t -10t^2

= t(50-5t)

so is at ground at t = 0 (unsurprisingly) and at 50-5t=0, t=10.

[Sean Mirrsen]

That is, if it's flying vertically upward.

The distance it traverses in those 10 seconds is quite large (I don't think a Bertha shot ever fell more than 5 seconds after the shot), so in reality, when in direct vision range, it shouldn't be possible to dodge anything.

The actual thing is, that if we make it this realistic, the maximum range of the weapon will be off-map. Even for medium cannons.

And, as long as we're on the subject of weapons. Zaphod, can you please make it so in the next version, that missiles actually respect their flighttime? I did this for me, but rather clumsily, since I once again fail to understand what goes on in the code. I'll point you to the location - in the MissileLauncher.cpp, in the Fire procedure, the new projectile is called with a calculated ttl (time to live), depending on range and speed of the projectile. It needs to be set to the flighttime parameter of the weapon, which, in turn, needs to be recognized in the WeaponDefHandler.

[Caydr]

In fact, it appears that almost no weapons use weapontimer. This pisses me off. I want EMGs to automatically disappear after three quarters of a second as they ought to, not be possible for use on top of a hill to attack an enemy across the map...

[Zoombie]

I think that SOME projectiles should go fast (like pewe shot and tankshot) but some should remain at teh same pace, like artillery and sutch.

[PauloMorfeo]

... it seems to me that the projectiles are slow. It looks like the units are just lobbing them at each other, not actually fighting. Could we possibly try ... so that ... shells fly faster etc? ...

And i think that in oTA the projectiles moved even slower.

The problem with increasing the projectiles speed is that, when they get to be fast enough, in order to reach they're target they will only need a minor inclination meaning they won't arc much anymore, meaning they won't fire from behind other units. Unless all gravity in the maps goes up just as well.
Hoping to have all maps be repackaged with new gravities is not viable.
Maybe if the engine was made to use multiplied gravity but that would also mean that all mods would have to increase all firing speeds acordingly (still better than hoping on seeing all maps updated).

Of course this would also bring balance problems since balistic weapons will get more usefull.
But having the balistic projectiles move faster would be nice to see.

[diggz2k]

If the projectile speeds are increased damage will need to be decreased a for some units, unless you want peewees to own. T

he slower artillery rounds should do more aoe damage because I want them to and because it will make dodging a little more real. If you saw a big ball of plasma falling down at you, you'd book it, but you wouldn't and shouldn't be able to get far enough away to avoid the blast.

The extreme range that we will get with the increased projectile speeds are a problem and need to be fixed, I haven't had time to think a lot, but what if plasma disapated a little past the range line like how lasers have a limited range. Feel free to post other range ideas.

Does plasma disapate like that in real life?

[Caydr]

No, I'm pretty sure all the modern-day plasma weapons I've seen remain cohesive pretty much until they impact the starships they were fired at. >_>

[zwzsg]

From a gameplay point of view, I like slow shots, because it means that plasma shots have trouble hitting moving target. So a goliath may shoot super-heavy round, he still couldn't hit a jeffy circling around it at full speed. That way, each kind of weapon got its use. Plasma against heavily armored slow moving targets, laser against mediumly armored faster target, and homing missile against lightest fastest target. If plasma shots were fast, then every kind of weapons would be more similar to each other, and that'd be bad.

Artillery supposed to pound heavily what is slow and armored. Artillery not supposed to take down planes and weasels. What made old TA so great is that instead of coding "artillery shell cannot damage plane and fast unit", they made is so the shell are so slow by the time they reach destination, plane and fast unit have moved away, but not slow tanks. So instead of arbritary "unit Y is immune to shot X", you have everything flowing down naturally from a couple simple rule "You can see how fast is unit Y, right? You can see how slow is shot X, right? Then you intuitively understand that shot X will miss unit Y most of the time".

Oh and please stop talking "realism" at once. It doesn't belong here. What's important is that it makes good gameplay and feel intuitive. Tanks slowly lobbing orange ball at each other is good for gameplay, look, and feel. Tanks firing shell at supersonic speed because it's like that with today's tank is bad for gameplay, bad for looks, bad for feelings.

IMO Doom1&2 still have usurpassed gameplay because they had big slow bright shots you could dodge.

Eh, Zenka, what do you think made the first Matrix movie so cool? Realism or dodgeable bullets?

[Zoombie]

I agree with Zwzg. But in Spring the explosions seem to lack...the omphf factor of the original game. Mabey the expolosions need more base. Mabey the need to shake the screen. Mabey they need to look like explosions rather then flash's of faintly reddish light.

[FoeOfTheBee]

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Ess ... apons.html

I'm in danger of losing the suspension of disbelief, unless plasma weapons change names.

[BlackLiger]

Look, guys, why do you think I said as an experiment. Its not something I'd want to just be done at random, I was hoping someone who had the code and knew how to edit it, like sean mirrsen or alantai, would see about editing it for a test, seeing how it ran, seeing how the game reacted, etc. Perhaps taking a video. Then telling us what they thought of it.