General Election - Derailed into religion, morality and life

[pintle]

Yeah, I don't like most of the people in the BNP simply because of their racist attitude and feel. But for me, Nick Griffin and the manifestos is mainly what I'm looking at. I can't judge all the BNP by a few racist idiots because every party has flawed MP's.

You dont like some BNP cos they are racist, but you like Nick Griffin.

You clearly have no idea what you are on about mate, go do some research on your party leader's past public appearances, bring us back some nice soundbites, tell me again he doesn't "feel" to have a racist attitude.

I've already watched the few the videos there are of Nick saying all that crap like 10+ years ago... Just because you want a certain race out of a country doesn't make you racist. He just feels that English people should live in England and everybody else should live in the country they belong to.

That doesn't make him racist. Lets say I own a cool people only club. I state only cool people are allowed into the club. However, one day, a bunch of uncool people come and join the club and I don't do anything about it.
Somebody in the cool club who is cool is annoyed because I've let uncool people into the club. After a few years, there are more uncool people than cool people in the club. However, it is still called the 'cool club' by name.
Eventually, all the cool people die out and the uncool people decide to rename the club to the 'Uncool club'.

That was the beginning and end of the cool club.

England is being invaded. In some years time, there will be more non-english people in England than english people and there's plenty of data to prove it.

Just because some people want England to be ruled by english people doesn't make them racist.

Just because he has gone on record several times as an avowed racist... oh wait, yeah, he is a racist fucktard.

Just because you agree with their laughable policy on migration doesn't mean they have any idea about economy, foreign policy, development, addressing the energy crisis, you really want hatemongers like that in charge of education?

I'm choosing to see this as you, a relatively intelligent person, being duped by their spin, and hoping you don't genuinely believe that these guys would create a better Britain, or that youd don't place the "genetic purity" of England (I note you don't mention the Union, even tho the party are the BRITISH national party (lol oxymoron much) and they would be governing Britain, not England) above safe development for our future.

There is no way of dressing it up: Nick Griffin is a racist. You can argue for a harder line on immigration, and petition your MP, it doesn't mean you have to vote for a bunch of ex-NF lunatics being the people in charge of our nuclear weapons...

[pintle]

On a lighter note, loads of people were turned away from the ballot, having queued in some cases for more than 3 hours! GO GO DEMOCRACY!

Why?

"there will be an enquiry"...

My guess is because the televised leadership debates actually mobilised the electorate into voting, as opposed to sitting on their arses watching Eastenders, then complaining about tax and immigration after they failed to vote, and the infrastructure was completely unprepared for actual democracy happening in our country.

[Jazcash]

As I said, I agree with most of their policies. Not just their policy on immigration. The BNP's manifesto does in fact cover many issues and only touches on immigration so I feel the BNP is relatively on key in all areas.

I understand that it concerns the UK and have stated that many a time already. However, I'm only concerned with England seeing as it's the place I lived. If I lived in Wales, I'd talk about what the BNP would do for me in Wales.

Don't get me wrong, Nick Griffin probably has said some racist things in the past. But then, so have I. That doesn't make me a racist.

[Das Bruce]

I think it does.

[FLOZi]

everyone with youth/intelligence/internet literacy did not vote tory

the other 90% however

More like 30%. The tories are a minority party, which is why they don't want PR, they want their own reform which is taking away 10% of MPs and essentially trying to lockdown a FPTP Tory majority forever.

The combined anti-tory vote is larger, both in seats and (massively) vote share.

[pintle]

Don't get me wrong, Nick Griffin probably has said some racist things in the past. But then, so have I. That doesn't make me a racist.

expressing racist opinions = being a racist

[Das Bruce]

Not sure if they're entirely accurate but they give a picture.

Incase you can't do the maths that's roughtly 35K for a Conservative MP, 33K for a Labour MP and 120K for a Liberal Democrat MP.

[Jazcash]

Don't get me wrong, Nick Griffin probably has said some racist things in the past. But then, so have I. That doesn't make me a racist.

expressing racist opinions = being a racist

Therefore everybody who says the word nigger is racist. Even the black people who say it.

I've used the term "nigger" before in the past just a sort of joke without even knowing what it meant. I was about 13 or so at the time. I never use the word seriously any more because I understand how wrong it is. I treat any race of people the same as anybody else. I am in no way a racist.

Again, I once said something racist, that doesn't make me a racist.

[pintle]

Don't get me wrong, Nick Griffin probably has said some racist things in the past. But then, so have I. That doesn't make me a racist.

expressing racist opinions = being a racist

Therefore everybody who says the word nigger is racist. Even the black people who say it.

I've used the term "nigger" before in the past just a sort of joke without even knowing what it meant. I was about 13 or so at the time. I never use the word seriously any more because I understand how wrong it is. I treat any race of people the same as anybody else. I am in no way a racist.

Again, I once said something racist, that doesn't make me a racist.

By definition, to be racist is to hold and express racists views. l2english.


..then l2politics.

[Jazcash]

How can you not understand that people change their minds? I once thought Console was better than PC. Now I think PC is better than console. That doesn't mean I now think that console is better than PC.

I once liked bananas, I don't any more. That means I don't like bananas.

I once believed in santa. I no longer believe in santa. That means I don't believe in santa.

Seriously, there are infinite number of examples. How many would it take for you to understand?

I do not hold racist views. Therefore I am not a racist. /End.

[pintle]

How can you not understand that people change their minds? I once thought Console was better than PC. Now I think PC is better than console. That doesn't mean I now think that console is better than PC.

I once liked bananas, I don't any more. That means I don't like bananas.

I once believed in santa. I no longer believe in santa. That means I don't believe in santa.

Seriously, there are infinite number of examples. How many would it take for you to understand?

I do not hold racist views. Therefore I am not a racist. /End.

I do not believe for an instant that Nick Griffin is no longer racist. I perceive support for an explicitly racist (for the *vast* majority of his political career) politician and his party as extremely morally dubious, if not implicitly racist itself. My initial statement was that Nick Griffin was a racist, not you.

[forest_devil]

deporting people on the basis of their religion IS racist /end

[JohannesH]

deporting people on the basis of their religion IS racist /end

no, deporting people on the basis of their RACE is racist

on religion basis its... Religionist

[Jazcash]

I do not believe for an instant that Nick Griffin is no longer racist. I perceive support for an explicitly racist (for the *vast* majority of his political career) politician and his party as extremely morally dubious, if not implicitly racist itself. My initial statement was that Nick Griffin was a racist, not you.

Fair play then. I honestly don't think anybody can know Nick Griffin of currently being racist though atm if he says he is not. He may well be a racist at heart, but there is no solid proof for that at the current time. (Ignoring 10+ years ago).

Everybody is entitled to their opinions of course and I'll accept that a lot of people in the BNP are in fact racist. If Nick Griffin is willing to say he isn't racist and can defend himself against those accusations, then he's not extreme enough of a racist for me to care.

deporting people on the basis of their religion IS racist /end

A religion is not a race.

[forest_devil]

forest_devil wrote:
deporting people on the basis of their religion IS racist /end


A religion is not a race.

on that technicality.

deporting people of the Islamic race is racist /end



either way its still discriminating and hating people for no decent reason.

[Peet]

He may well be a racist at heart, but there is no solid proof for that at the current time. (Ignoring 10+ years ago).

Wasn't it just three months ago that the party dropped their policy of whites-only, and only after being forced by the courts?

deporting people on the basis of their religion IS racist /end

A religion is not a race.

That is a really dumb argument. Discrimination based on religion, nationality, and ethnicity are usually all called racism. Even if it technically doesn't fit the dictionary definition of racism it is still a form of discrimination very similar to that based upon racism, and is still invariably immoral.

[pintle]

What I like especially, is the correlation between actual concrete contributions towards building and maintaining our welfare state and support infrastructure, and supporting the BNP.

Very very few of the BNP advocates I have ever encountered have any real vested interest in their community, other than keeping it white. Even fewer of those showed any sign of interest in politics whatsoever, until this pseudo-legitimate banner for racists to collect under made its way into the "mainstream".

If I ever met a BNP supporter with some genuine political awareness, and a small knowledge of the history of British democracy, I would be less inclined to immediately point and laugh at the retarded xenophobes.

[Sucky_Lord]

Look, its a pretty simple human rights choice.

Jaz you forgot to mention you were kicking the uncool people out of the club and sending them to lead lives of suffering.

But of course its very important to keep all the cool people in the cool club, we can sacrifice a few million lives for that.

[SpikedHelmet]

Now you claim you're not racist, but you and the BNP seem to have based your politics on the fact that there are more brown people around than you'd like. I say brown people because that's what this is about. I'm sure the BNP brings up the fact that there are something like 4.3 million immigrants currently living in Britain, and I'll bet they like every other racist bigot (as has already been mentioned in this thread) communicate these figures with with pictures of muslims and indians holding AK-47's and RPGs and weaponized curry and looking like terrorists and Apu. No mention is made of the fact that of these 4.3 million, 1.9 of them -- nearly half -- are white Europeans. But do you ever hear Nick Griffin complaining about those "damned filthy blond-haired, blue-eyed, light skinned animals"? About how towns and cities throughout the UK are beginning to look like parts of Germany or Italy? Or how English is becoming a second language behind French or or Spanish in parts of the country?

No, you don't.

And there seems to be a completely revisionist understanding of European history and the fact that for the last 1000 years, demographics have come and gone like the wind (almost literally), as armies invaded this or that country, people migrated in the hundreds of thousands this or what way, the Romans, the Goths, the Huns, the Normans, the Saxons, the Germans, the French -- you get my point.

Then, of course, there's the fact that you reap what you damned well sow. The British Empire was built on the subjugation of places like South Africa, India, parts of Asia and the Caribbean, where your way of life was evolved through the exploitation of people and resources from all across the planet and still does to this day. British corporations -- just like corporations from all the western countries -- are neck-deep in the economies of hundreds of 3rd and 2nd world countries extracting oil or harvesting crops or manufacturing commodities that you use each and every day, so you're damned right that those people who are being paid a dollar a day to make all your shit for you are going to take every chance they get to come pay you a visit and live the life of luxery you are afforded by their blood and sweat.

In other words, you expect the money and the commodities and the oil and the food and the technology and products to be able to flow freely to you but you don't want the people whose culture and livelihoods allow you to have them? Fuck off. If you're really against immigration then do us a favour, go around your house and chuck out every single piece item you can find that wasn't made in Britain, and see how easy your life is without the rest of the world.

[pintle]

Now you claim you're not racist, but you and the BNP seem to have based your politics on the fact that there are more brown people around than you'd like. I say brown people because that's what this is about. I'm sure the BNP brings up the fact that there are something like 4.3 million immigrants currently living in Britain, and I'll bet they like every other racist bigot (as has already been mentioned in this thread) communicate these figures with with pictures of muslims and indians holding AK-47's and RPGs and weaponized curry and looking like terrorists and Apu. No mention is made of the fact that of these 4.3 million, 1.9 of them -- nearly half -- are white Europeans. But do you ever hear Nick Griffin complaining about those "damned filthy blond-haired, blue-eyed, light skinned animals"? About how towns and cities throughout the UK are beginning to look like parts of Germany or Italy? Or how English is becoming a second language behind French or or Spanish in parts of the country?

No, you don't.

And there seems to be a completely revisionist understanding of European history and the fact that for the last 1000 years, demographics have come and gone like the wind (almost literally), as armies invaded this or that country, people migrated in the hundreds of thousands this or what way, the Romans, the Goths, the Huns, the Normans, the Saxons, the Germans, the French -- you get my point.

Then, of course, there's the fact that you reap what you damned well sow. The British Empire was built on the subjugation of places like South Africa, India, parts of Asia and the Caribbean, where your way of life was evolved through the exploitation of people and resources from all across the planet and still does to this day. British corporations -- just like corporations from all the western countries -- are neck-deep in the economies of hundreds of 3rd and 2nd world countries extracting oil or harvesting crops or manufacturing commodities that you use each and every day, so you're damned right that those people who are being paid a dollar a day to make all your shit for you are going to take every chance they get to come pay you a visit and live the life of luxery you are afforded by their blood and sweat.

In other words, you expect the money and the commodities and the oil and the food and the technology and products to be able to flow freely to you but you don't want the people whose culture and livelihoods allow you to have them? Fuck off. If you're really against immigration then do us a favour, go around your house and chuck out every single piece item you can find that wasn't made in Britain, and see how easy your life is without the rest of the world.

wub joo spike