DSD T1 ONLY

[Neddie]

This sounds like a highly effective way to end the slight but stable stream of new players coming into Spring to play *A content packages.

[Gota]

This sounds like a highly effective way to end the slight but stable stream of new players coming into Spring to play *A content packages.

So,that means you support this idea?

[Neddie]

No, it does not.

[Gota]

Oh.
Well i assume your conclusion was based on some extensive research you did so i have no options but to withdraw my support for the idea.

[Neddie]

You cannot conduct research at the drop of a hat, I have neither the time nor the money to test it, nor do I pretend to have done so. However, it is a reasonable supposition.

Those who join Spring and begin playing *A on DSD - excepting those few who came to play other things and were unable to find a match for their game of choice - most likely join for the following reasons in order from most to least probable: no price tag, large matches, various units in use, the powerful interface.

This means limiting the variety of units and the size of matches will reduce the impact of those alluring elements. Furthermore, nobody wants to be stuck with a weaker/lesser selection than their opponent - the reason unlockables work well in FPS is that the differences can be easily overcome by skill or are otherwise negligible/cosmetic. Differing access to tiers of units with differing roles represent a structural difference which cannot be entirely overcome by skill - as Lion, Day, Flop, Aegis, Guiltyspark, Drexion, Cabbage, Steve, Issac, Steven, Dem0, Tired and myself all experienced in the past in AA/BA/TiA/SA - the games are designed in such a way that at some point no number of Rocko or Stumpy will allow you to advance against a strong selection of T2. It isn't a stretch to foresee that many players would consider the unit restrictions arbitrary and unfun as they struggled to learn the game.

I do understand where you're coming from, and from an academic standpoint, I would love it if people learned in smaller games and practiced the basic units before moving on the more advanced options, but forcing that sort of thing structurally in multiplayer will simply act as a deterrent.

[SirMaverick]

[...] the games are designed in such a way that at some point no number of Rocko or Stumpy will allow you to advance against a strong selection of T2. It isn't a stretch to foresee that many players would consider the unit restrictions arbitrary and unfun as they struggled to learn the game.

I do understand where you're coming from, and from an academic standpoint, I would love it if people learned in smaller games and practiced the basic units before moving on the more advanced options, but forcing that sort of thing structurally in multiplayer will simply act as a deterrent.

I agree.

Some noob cry "cheat!" when you use your units more efficiently or in a way they don't know yet. What they think when they get to know that they are actually bound to less powerful units than other players: Cheats by design - get me out of here!

[JohannesH]

If you cant use high tiers units at all, it doesnt teach you anything about when you should go for them and when not. You just see the "good" players on your team teching asap behind your back... Why wouldnt you do the same when you finally can. You're still playing dsd, stuck to the t1, and that doesnt instantly give you any clue wtf you should be doing to help your team.

If you want people to learn they must try different things. If they're smart at all they see a bit how things work, what works when. But theres not much direct response to your actions in an 8v8, especially if you're not even trying to learn.

[Gota]

If you cant use high tiers units at all, it doesnt teach you anything about when you should go for them and when not. You just see the "good" players on your team teching asap behind your back... Why wouldnt you do the same when you finally can. You're still playing dsd, stuck to the t1, and that doesnt instantly give you any clue wtf you should be doing to help your team.

If you want people to learn they must try different things. If they're smart at all they see a bit how things work, what works when. But theres not much direct response to your actions in an 8v8, especially if you're not even trying to learn.

If your a newbie you wouldn't be playing a 8v8.
You'd be playing a 4v4 learning how to properly play the game than slowly introduced to T2 units .

@Neddie I dont know where your exp with games comes form but Limiting features based on time played is very popular now and I think it will increase interest as oppose to decreasing it as players will have something to look for as they play.
It is a proven design.
It is not implemented only in FPS but in many other games like MMORPGs.
It just needs to be thought through properly And I am sure this is possible even IN TA based games on the Spring engine.
Of course the easiest thing to do would be to not even think about it and just straight out deny the possibility of it improving anything.
All your statements about the validity of such a design for TA mods are suppositions just like my own,only you have no data about limiting features in such a way in RTS,while there is data about how it does work in other genres.

[zwzsg]

I offered this ages ago and i still support this idea.
Units should unlock as rank progresses.

Does S.A. feature this?

[JohannesH]

If your a newbie you wouldn't be playing a 8v8.
You'd be playing a 4v4 learning how to properly play the game

If thats the case why the need to restrict units

[Gota]

I offered this ages ago and i still support this idea.
Units should unlock as rank progresses.

Does S.A. feature this?

No.Cant implement it only in SA.
It's like if i gave you an option to play with a level 80 character in WoW or start from lvl 1.
Or like giving out all the weapons and gadgets in CoD or Bad company right at the start.

It has to be understood and accepted by the mod devs and current community and than implemented in most TA mods.

@regret (he hasn't posted this yet but i assume he will want to)no ,IMO,some random guy releasing his own version of a mod without the restriction will not easily catch on.

@Johan first of all its easier and less confusing for newbies.
Second of all the RPG feel.
The amount of units and options in TA mods is mind boggling introducing them slowly would allow players to feel less confused.

I support implementing both or just one of the options.

[SirMaverick]

If your a newbie you wouldn't be playing a 8v8.
You'd be playing a 4v4 learning how to properly play the game

If thats the case why the need to restrict units

And why would newbie not play 8v8?

@Neddie I dont know where your exp with games comes form but Limiting features based on time played is very popular now and I think it will increase interest as oppose to decreasing it as players will have something to look for as they play.
It is a proven design.

In which context?

It is not implemented only in FPS but in many other games like MMORPGs.

Dunno about FPS, but MMORPGs are one big game, which you just "pause" when you logout and continue next time. TA mods are complete games you play all at once. You don't pause and continue tomorrow.

This could only work when the single game is embedded in a larger context like planetwars. But there should be not consequence outside of a campaign.