what is being in the army like?

[PicassoCT]

this is like a good inn, you come in, sit down, here a good story, have a
pint of rage.

PS: Unfortunatly there is a going back, all soldiers return to civil life sooner or later, and although the adrenaline kick never will be the same, the quest to find the meaning of life is only suspended to be solved later on.

Inb4 Motorcycle till liver cirrhosis kills you.

[KDR_11k]

taboos are socially learned and not natural. killing maybe natural but sure makes living in groups harder, hence laws of the land.

Killing others of your own species is not natural for humans, hence the PTSD from doing so. What's natural differs between species.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

Killing others of your own species is not natural for humans, hence the PTSD from doing so. What's natural differs between species.

I that is most likely just a product of our upbringing and culture. I doubt humans living as cavemen had PTSD after killing.

[Gota]

Europeans(central,western,northern Europeans) have been spoiled by many years of peace,no doubt.
Its good there are computer games and game forums where people can use up their hostility and anger.

[Forboding Angel]

stuff

Are you vegetarian (or only eat "ethical" meat), or just a hypocrite? This is one topic that I find incredibly infuriating.

Vegetarians (vegans) should be systematically shot and their lifeless corpses used to fire my extremely-toxic-and-environmentally-damaging-but-not-environmentally-damaging-because-you-enviros-are-nuts reactor of dewm.

DEWM I SAY!

For those of you in Rio Linda, that was a joke.

[Panda]

Proper educational dissections are fine with me, but should not be done often. Learning first aid and how to care for wounds is good too. I know first aid. I figure that there's really no substitute for the real thing when learning about biological systems and how they function as a whole and it is important to know how they function within the body. I'm not saying that I want to dissect a bunny or anything, but something like a crawfish or maybe a frog is alright for learning about organs and their place especially since people over here cook and eat them (or parts of them) anyway.

Also, since we can't all and don't all want to work with cadavers, ceramic models are great for learning about things like the structure of the heart. I have a ceramic model of a heart that can be used in a classroom. These are especially good if you don't come from an area where people have a lot of technology and models may even work better for some people who do have technology because they provide us with a different way of learning about whatever you're studying.

[Forboding Angel]

Do these models have big bewbs?

Edit: inb4motorboat

[SwiftSpear]

Killing others of your own species is not natural for humans, hence the PTSD from doing so. What's natural differs between species.

I that is most likely just a product of our upbringing and culture. I doubt humans living as cavemen had PTSD after killing.

The earliest human texts speak of the horrors of death and war. I don't think most humans are capable of killing with no ill effects simply due to genetics. Some are. I won't dispute that.

[Panda]

Do these models have big bewbs?

Edit: inb4motorboat

No.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

Killing others of your own species is not natural for humans, hence the PTSD from doing so. What's natural differs between species.

I that is most likely just a product of our upbringing and culture. I doubt humans living as cavemen had PTSD after killing.

The earliest human texts speak of the horrors of death and war. I don't think most humans are capable of killing with no ill effects simply due to genetics. Some are. I won't dispute that.

The earliest human texts were written at a point where humans had developed language, culture and self awareness. Cavemen would not have had the language to express or conceive the 'horror of war'.

also

killing and death are two different ball games.

people can kill and kill without becoming distressed if raised without inhibition of doing so. Romans used to watch gladiators fight to death for entertainment; people working at deathcamps claimed 'I was just doing my job' at the nuremberg trials

Dying is assosiated with fear for any living creature as a hardcoded survival instinct; war is distressing because the threat of death is constant.

[Caydr]

stuff

Are you vegetarian (or only eat "ethical" meat), or just a hypocrite? This is one topic that I find incredibly infuriating.

No, just a hypocrite. I think industrial farming/meat production is horrifying, disgusting, even borderline criminal, and at the same time damn but I do love a good hamburger.

I'd gladly pay more for animal products which are produced in a more humane and natural way, but for now, I only really care about the animals that are cute and make me feel godlike in my control over their daily lives.

Sarcasm? No, I'm just really, really, a douche. My cat loves me though, or at least she wants me to think she does. This indicates she feels reverential fear of my displeasure - and that's good enough for me. Matter of fact, I'm going to go pull her tail right now just to keep her on her toes and make sure she's abundantly aware of how powerless she is before me.

kitty.gif (50.29 KiB) Viewed 1805 times

[Panda]

Cavemen would not have had the language to express or conceive the 'horror of war'.

We weren't around to know how cavemen usually reacted to such things either and we don't fully understand how modern man's brain works much less the average caveman's brain.

[Master-Athmos]

killing and death are two different ball games.

people can kill and kill without becoming distressed if raised without inhibition of doing so. Romans used to watch gladiators fight to death for entertainment; people working at deathcamps claimed 'I was just doing my job' at the nuremberg trials

Dying is assosiated with fear for any living creature as a hardcoded survival instinct; war is distressing because the threat of death is constant.

I really wouldn't say it like that...

Actually you only can kill without "becoming distressed" if you lose your empathy. That of course can be "trained" but in the first place and for the huge majority you at first have to cross that line (which most certainly won't happen voluntary)...

Also the gladiators and the deathcamps are no good example for your thesis. Romans weren't that happy with gladiator fights but you couldn't say much against it because as it had sort of a "sacred" status (don't know how to describe it otherwise) and protesting against it would mean to confront the emperor which you didn't want back then. Also e.g. emperor Mark Aurel forbid the use of sharp weapons or emperor Augustus forbid those fights that end with the death of one fighter. So the Romans weren't that much of a bloodthirsty people while many of course enjoyed those fights...

Concerning those deathcamps - well we're now entering a part where "killing" really gets different which also really makes war and killing there different. You usually would hurt / kill people for a reason like being angry, jealous or whatever. You wouldn't just randomly kill anyone on the street though. That's different in a war and is one of the reasons why a war is so horrible. You generalize people taking away most of their "humanity" turning them into "puppets" controlled by the "enemy". You then can get ordered to kill those at sight. Together with the horrific situations modern warfare can get you into I guess everything from that point on should be well known for everyone...

Partially this also applies to the Nuremberg Trial which imo also is a bad example for your thesis of killing in terms of a job without distress. Just because some said they weren't guilty they both needn't always have felt that way nor might this actually be their real opinion but rather the way they justified what they did for themselves...

But oh well I guess we all hope you won't die when joining the army...

[SwiftSpear]

The earliest human texts were written at a point where humans had developed language, culture and self awareness. Cavemen would not have had the language to express or conceive the 'horror of war'.

also

killing and death are two different ball games.

people can kill and kill without becoming distressed if raised without inhibition of doing so. Romans used to watch gladiators fight to death for entertainment; people working at deathcamps claimed 'I was just doing my job' at the nuremberg trials

Dying is assosiated with fear for any living creature as a hardcoded survival instinct; war is distressing because the threat of death is constant.

I believe self-species killing inhibition is part of normal sociological upbringing traced back to our farthest root in tribal societies. People needed to be able to trust each other to live together and survive together. You can't trust someone who kills his own people. People suck at life, if we weren't so successful as a tribal species we would have had zero chance at natural survival. "Cave men" wouldn't be primal individual entities, they most likely identified with their tribe to the point of complete reliance.

Actually, most children have observable general killing inhibition. It can be extremely difficult to train children to butcher animals as part of their farm work. I suspect it's because their emotional drive overpowers any logical reason they have to kill (need food). A complete and total lack of killing inhibition is observed in a range of individuals with diagnosable psychopathy, and psychopathy, in most cases is found to have little or nothing to do with upbringing. So it's hard to say that killing inhibition is taught.

[Licho]

Actually "cavemen" probably rarely fought - population was too sparse for conflicts. All those thousands of paintings show just hunts, never fights/war. Earliest traces of organized warfare are very recent - some 12000BC

Also I doubt human psyche changed much over past few milenia. In short, violent, but often highly ritualized tribal conflicts of past, there was no enduring long term combat stress from unseen enemy etc. And if some people suffered from impacts of such actions, there were more important issues to attend to than marking it down for us.

If you think humans were tougher with different education - consider that in WWI or WWII most soldiers actually failed to shoot at enemy (didn't shoot or shot away on purpose) and in WWI many hundreds of thousands were paralyzed by stress related problems - it was a major problem back then.

[bobthedinosaur]

Actually they found remains of a neanderthal with a wounds from what anthropologists believe are human weapons. So they believe that the two species lived at the same time and we helped them become extinct.

[SwiftSpear]

Actually they found remains of a neanderthal with a wounds from what anthropologists believe are human weapons. So they believe that the two species lived at the same time and we helped them become extinct.

Ah, a 1 item case study. I'm convinced!

[PicassoCT]

well there is the basic pact between all mammals, dont eat the young ones, have a egg instead, there is plenty of dino-food around you, help yourself and dont eat something that has large eyes and is a social creature.

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And killing was a nice sparetime hobby ever since humans had overpopulation, so it is pretty natural, if you feel your self young, like a "waste of ressources walking" to go for the neighborhood tribe and beat somebody up who has the same young bulge problem. On some islands they used to send the young overpopulation in boats out into the ocean, gues thats the navy alternative. Guess its quite a rip-off on society, once it educated you, to say - hey, now i have your moneytime wasted on me, im gonna do a gruntjob, that everybody could do. Guess, that gets me on my guts and sends me ragin on for pagins. FUUUUUUUUU

[Gota]

Many mammals kill their own kids,lions for example.
Lions can also kill kids of other members of the pride.

[rinkydink]

Ivory, It's great you want to go out and do something completely different to your usual routine, but PLEASE don't join the army, I myself lost 2 very good friends in the marines in a helicopter crash 2 years ago.

I'd like to rant about how it's bullshit that our troops are over there in Iraq and Afghanistan, but I'd just be repeating what has already been said.

Please watch this video, the speaker puts it way better than I ever could, and it may make you change your mind about the army.
If not, then good luck to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akm3nYN8aG8