NOTA 1.82

[Thor]

I've never had it crash from playing with the same teamid's.

I don't know why the battlecruisers shoot at valkyries. They're shooting at the unit it's carrying (they don't shoot at empty valkyries), but snipers have the same target category as the bc's guns and they don't do that. Anyway, the only time they have even a chance of hitting them is when they're landing, so it doesn't seem like a big deal.

The new version is pretty much done. I would say expect it Saturday if not today. Some of the new features are a commander only game-mode, core carriers having anti-nukes, and stunners and scramjams jamming the area where they hit (the scramjam covers a wider area than the emp, both last for 30 seconds).

Remodeling units is not something I'm crazy about because besides the fact that it's a huge amount of work, the fact is that what really matters is how something looks at a distance, not close up, and more often than not the original models end up looking just as good if not better.

Supreme Commander had carriers just like you're describing nightcold, where the planes would be stored inside safely until you wanted to launch them. It looked cool. There wasn't much reason most of the time to do it, though.

[nightcold]

carriers holding planes is just something i rlly wana c in game...or just have the planes sit on top of the carriers untill u need them...in many ways there are many aspects that are not used or rarly used/more or less not needed...imo rts/games in general are less about what is needed and more about fulfilling a subconscious desire

rather excited for the new version

[hoijui]

com sharing -> one commander
coop -> #players = #commanders

you can also play com-sharing, and add NullAI, and take its commander in-game.

[Thor]

v1.62 released: http://www.springfiles.com/show_file.php?id=2597

Changelog:

-Commander and Base mode replaced with Commander mode. Commander in this mode has cheap cloaking but limited build tree.
-Peewee, AK, and HAK speed increased 10%
-Galacticus cost and buildtime decreased 20%; range decreased from 1500 to 1250; rate of fire decreased 20%; Secondary gun damage decreased 25%
-Oddity cost decreased 20%; range decreased from 1500 to 1250; rate of fire decreased 20%
-Penetrator cost and buildtime decreased 35%; damage decreased 35%; Laser uses 17% less energy
-Kbot and hovercraft AA reload time and damage decreased
-Improved firing angles for Missile AA trucks and hovercraft
-Mobile flak damage slightly increased but accuracy slightly decreased
-Hellfish accuracy against moving targets improved
-Hellfish reargun damage and accuracy lowered
-Hammer/Thud damage to buildings and hovercraft decreased 10%
-Thud and Sniper climbing ability lowered from 38 to 34 (regular kbots are 30)
-Spy kbot cost and buildtime decreased 20%
-Pelican rocket damage increased 33%
-Increased dmg/sec of crabe, panther, and pelican anti-air
-Goliath speed increased 5%
-Maverick and Drone weapons now do reduced damage to armor on the same scale as thuds/hammers
-Maverick energy cost decreased 25%; metal cost decreased 15%; buildtime decreased 25%
-Drone cost and buildtime decreased 15%
-Razorback cost and buildtime decreased 5%
-Horgue Speed increased
-Can range increased from 360 to 400; reload time increased 11%
-Stunner and Scramjam missiles now create a jamming effect in the area where they hit
-Core Carrier now has anti-nukes
-Anti-nukes launch sooner against incoming missiles
-Core cruiser cost and buildtime decreased 10%
-Talwar energy cost and buildtime decreased 15%
-Arm Railgun Cruiser energy cost increased 5%
-Battlecruiser cost and buildtime increased 5%
-Coastal Defense Guns now prioritize ships over other targets
-EMP Mine cost and buildtime decreased 40%
-Nuke Mine no longer automatically detonates. Use Ctrl-D to detonate it.
-Lasers no longer try to shoot through wreckage
-Changed Greyhound machinegun sound effect
-Increased Spacebug Queen mass so it won\'t be knocked by explosions
-Added RedUI. LolUI is still included but turned off by default. Don't enable both at once. Added autoquit and pause screen widgets

[Umrug]

Thor.
Every. Single. Change. In this version. Is PERFECT.
I don't know how you are doing it, but you are doing it right.
I love you.

<3

Damn! Damn, damn, damn!
What I love the most: the pw/ak/hak speed boost! The long-needed bot aa change (have to see how it works though). Autoquit widget! Hellfish accuracy (have to see though). Anti-nukes launch sooner!!!!

'splode from <3

[thelawenforcer]

it looks very cool.

btw, for the commander only mode, maybe giving the commander some form of AA (other than the laser) would make it more able to counter the Air which was dominant in that game. Still needs to be tested more though.

Also, i think that with the speed boost for the peewee/ak, they will be used more, meaning that the zeus might actually be useful now as a useful unit to have in your mix.

[==Troy==]

for the next version :


* Metal maker destruction sound is the same global sound as the greyhound minigun

* ARM crawling bombs could use a 400-450 radius decloak cloak when walking (and maybe smaller buildtime while keeping the same cost?)

* t2 anti-air is still rarely seen, usually by the time t2 comes, its easier to build defenders vs napalm bombers.

* Add a default move order to move forward to the units deployed by TalWar (should speed up deployment rate)

* is it possible to improve prediction for the miniguns and razorback? They seem to hit only at maximum range, and usually miss when the plane is flying overhead.

great to see the new version out :)


Edit :

At the moment torpedo plane works like this :

build 4 torp planes
tell them to attack destroyer
they drop 4 torps
die to flak
destroyer dies to 4 torpedos


All in all its cost effective to lose those 4 torps against the destroyer, especially if the destroyer wreck is reclaimed.


Id like to suggest to increase the resilience of the torp plane a bit more, but allow them to carry 2 torpedos (need to engage target twice) while lowering the torpedo speed, to actually give destroyer a chance to dodge it. (or at least reduce turnspeed)

[Thor]

Umrug, thanks! I appreciate it.

Thanks for your comments troy. I still prefer simply stealthing crawling bombs from radar rather than cloaking. It's less confusing imo.

I'm not really convinced there's anything wrong with torp planes. They tend to get torn up pretty easily by aa later in the game. Sending out a lone destroyer at the beginning of the game can be risky because of them, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Unfortunately the torpedoes are pretty much hardcoded to act as they do. Decreasing turn rate simply means they hit the ocean floor due to their downward momentum, and the velocity is also something basically out of my control. Giving them a second drop is something I don't like for a few reasons. First, it goes against the archetypal idea of what a torpedo bomber should do, which is make a single pass and get out of there. Secondly because they have such a low cruise altitude they will actually run into the ship they are bombing if they don't turn around like they do now due to running out of fuel.

[nightcold]

com only mode is great....it adds a lower tech level to the game(wtv com has as t1, nano t2, advanced builder t3)....it makes the game go by much faster with a rather nice gameplay variation...imo com could also use a none-transportable llt as well as a missile tower...com also needs more range(dgun/beam/jetpack) to be able to compeat and stand up to the ranged centered gameplay of nota....

imo peewee could still use a bit more boost, a bit more hp should do the trick...and less drawback to the group when one of them dies..i want them to be better at chargeing thuds...also ak needs more range(i belive peewee has more range than ak)

quick note, what is the use for panters in nota??? i demand a full nota guide explaining the balance with roles and counters!!!!!

also, great job with the update

[thelawenforcer]

is it me or do raptors no longer lose weapons as they take damage?

[thelawenforcer]

Also, i think that with the speed boost for the peewee/ak, they will be used more, meaning that the zeus might actually be useful now as a useful unit to have in your mix.

http://replays.adune.nl/?2435

[Thor]

I've also found commander mode quite fun for small 1v1 games. Allowing the commander to build flak guns should help curb the dominance of early air power, particularly strategic bombers, on medium and large sized maps.

Panthers can be used either singly for killing mexes on spread out maps or in large groups either for surprise flanking attacks or surprise base attacks.

is it me or do raptors no longer lose weapons as they take damage?

Placebo effect.

[thelawenforcer]

i just noticed that a had a raptor that had low health, but it was still able to fire rocket salvos. i may ahve been wrong tho.

[smartie]

Raptors lose weapons when they get hit by something big. Gollie's, sumos, guardians all do the trick.

[thelawenforcer]

ah ok.

[thelawenforcer]

im starting to feel that core are kinda imba these days. They have better units almost in every category. In veh they have the reaper and leveler, in kbot they have the mortie (which is better than the sniper). In air they have the vashps which is just way more versatile than the toadfoots, in t2 air, they have firebats and lillies, in t2 kbot they have dominators (which are just sooo cheap and sooo deadly).

I dont know how others feel about this though.

[Thor]

Dominators have always been good but the oddity/gala nerf means there's not really any good way to fight them.

I agree that Core is probably the more powerful race right now.

[Umrug]

im starting to feel that core are kinda imba these days. They have better units almost in every category. In veh they have the reaper and leveler, in kbot they have the mortie (which is better than the sniper). In air they have the vashps which is just way more versatile than the toadfoots, in t2 air, they have firebats and lillies, in t2 kbot they have dominators (which are just sooo cheap and sooo deadly).

This and CRABE

Really, vashps became a serious problem. I think they are about the level of exploit now. Main difference between toadfoot and vashp - forget the cost, forget the firepower, forget the range -vashps can be micromanaged to avoid enemy aa fire. Lets say you have 10 of them at some point - you give them a move order about a hammer's range away from enemy lines, and when they reach it you give them a move order back (no attack orders). Result - enemy line suffers horrible damage from their missiles (bombs are not dropped), while ground aa is inefficient - dca doesnt have enough range, and aa bots, even if there are 10 of them, will normally not even kill a single plane!
Watch any game with thelawenforcer, he is using this strategy every game now. So far I don't know a single anti-tactic to this.
Toadfoots can not be micromanaged the same way - they do not autotarget land units.

On the good side - peewee and AK speed boost really improved the gameplay imo! Also, I saw cans used properly and efficiently.

So yeah, vashp situation needs solution.

[==Troy==]

Cans still suck big time. Sumo is just 2x more expensive, and still beats having 2 cans instead.


Try to have mobile flak against vashps, but I agree in general that the way the vashp is now, its nearlly impossible to kill it effectively with ground AA.

The launch angle tolerance on vashp is about 30? degrees, which allows them to launch their payload at gliding angles to the army, unlike toadfoot, who has to fly straight, and hence would fly over the enemy army.

[nightcold]

im starting to feel that core are kinda imba these days. They have better units almost in every category. In veh they have the reaper and leveler, in kbot they have the mortie (which is better than the sniper). In air they have the vashps which is just way more versatile than the toadfoots, in t2 air, they have firebats and lillies, in t2 kbot they have dominators (which are just sooo cheap and sooo deadly).

This and CRABE

Really, vashps became a serious problem. I think they are about the level of exploit now. Main difference between toadfoot and vashp - forget the cost, forget the firepower, forget the range -vashps can be micromanaged to avoid enemy aa fire. Lets say you have 10 of them at some point - you give them a move order about a hammer's range away from enemy lines, and when they reach it you give them a move order back (no attack orders). Result - enemy line suffers horrible damage from their missiles (bombs are not dropped), while ground aa is inefficient - dca doesnt have enough range, and aa bots, even if there are 10 of them, will normally not even kill a single plane!
Watch any game with thelawenforcer, he is using this strategy every game now. So far I don't know a single anti-tactic to this.
Toadfoots can not be micromanaged the same way - they do not autotarget land units.

On the good side - peewee and AK speed boost really improved the gameplay imo! Also, I saw cans used properly and efficiently.

So yeah, vashp situation needs solution.

snipers have a totally different role than morties...morty is more of a long range bombardment unit, while snipers are placed in key positions/near the front line and blast away/harass your enemy without being detected or seen.....(thu both are hrassment units)

law is god at exploiting cheap tactics, just spec a goode vs. law game to pick up the proper counters

imo arm needs an anti-kbot/anti-swarm/anti-light armo vec(you know, that thing with the comically large barrels and missiles in ba/ota)

i still think that the anti-nuke for the core car is unfair, it basicly removes the nuke counter for enemy core ships by your shore....arm ships dont have really that big of an advantage....

ak/peewee still need more range/hp(2 stand up 2 the thuds)....sick of the thud/hammer spam

anyay when dealing with these issues one has to consider sacrificing the race differences(well ta hardy had 2 much of that)

also, we need a random for the custom race..this way people who forget 2 pick will not always get arm

something that rlly shows off the nota feel and might get people into the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBsKcFzHuPA

quick note: if you have have a carrier pick up a portable flak can it still fire while in flight???