New Option: Diminishing Metal Spots

[Mav]

Gametype: Entropy

The idea for this came from Argh in a different thread:

Why not go the other way with this, and have mines that eventually are tapped out? Not that "diminishing returns" thing, which blows, but actual, per-spot strength. So early game, you have plenty of metal... late game, if you haven't gone MM econ, you lose. Should be a fairly simple Gadget.

I'd like to take this a step further: no metal makers allowed. What does this do?
It forces rapid expansion over porcing. As every metal spot only has a fixed amount of metal and the rate of extraction slows over time, it makes sense to grab and hold as many mexes as possible at the beginning of the game. It also puts a huge emphasis on repairing units and reclaiming wrecks. Anyone who has played StarCraft (which should be about all of us) are familiar with games that have limited, depleting resources.

Eventually, metal runs out and everyone is left standing with whatever units they have. Reclaiming (now useless) mexes, solars, etc. will allow for a little more unit production, but eventually you end up with two armies that are facing off and unable to supply reinforcements. I could see some really interested duels at the end, and maybe even the use of FPS at the very end if you've only got one remaining unit.

The upsides:

• Giant DSD porcefest becomes nearly impossible (for those of us who don't like those games)
• Games run quicker as there is a fixed amount of metal.
• Focuses on good micro, unit repair, and rapid reclamation, which are some of the things new players ignore most.

The downsides:

• Probably won't work well on large maps unless some changes are made, as a handful of slow-moving units trying to find each other on DSD with no radar could take a while.
• Will obviously take a lot of coding to implement this
• It will probably end in a lot of com duels at the end of the game
• What happens if the last units are of a type that cannot attack each other? I'm thinking Sub vs. Brawler here or something like that.
• Probably about 5 more that I'm not thinking of

How to handle the first downside: the easy way is to play on smaller maps like I see a lot of CA games played on. That way a units can find each other more easily at the end.

A second way: maybe some sort of condition gives all units radar (range TBD) or spawns an uber radar tower that covers the map. It's kinda like a call in poker, when suddenly everyone's hands become visible. The condition would probably be a time limit, or when all mexes run dry, or both.

Maybe if all units get radar, the range of the radar starts small (about the distance of LOS) and grows larger. This way, you can't suddenly see the entire map, but instead more and more units show up so the game can play out a little more slowly.

Another way to handle com-duels and large-map issue would be to have the coms morph into the uber-radar described above. That way, coms can't dgun the last few enemy units, and there will be no com duels at the end.

How to handle units types that can't fire at each other? I don't know. I thought about some sort of stalemate mode where something else determines winner, but that sounds sort of weak.

A final note: game end would be determined when all units capable of attack on a team are dead. It prevents people from having to hunt down solars, buildings, etc.

Anyway, that's my idea. I think it would improve gameplay fundamentals (micro, reclaim, repair), make games play out faster, and force rapid expansion. Some of my solutions to above problems are fairly clunky and probably suck. I'm sure you guys could come up with much better solutions to the problems.

[Argh]

Just a small thought: allow MMs, but increase their E tradeoff cost by, IDK, something like 10X, or make them physically larger so they're harder to defend, or both. I'd also increase initial metal output per mine initially, so that the game really starts fast. And I certainly wouldn't allow mohos; that's too close to a true econ, and at best it should be something that back-row players can build if they're nubs, although it should be a poor investment in a serious game.

There's nothing wrong with granting people some trickle econ towards the end- a lot of RTS games do it that way, to prevent utter stalemate- but the key is that reaching that point should be rare.

I am seriously thinking this is the way P.U.R.E.'s going, gameplay-wise, because otherwise it's too much like OTA only with a faster pace as things currently stand, so I thought I'd throw it out there as a gameplay variant. I think that after watching what happens with the exponential economy up close, I'm more interested in exploring scarcity and tipping-point stuff ala AoE, where by the time you get to trickle econ, the game should be over, unless the players suck or are brilliantly matched in skill.

Anyhow, I really was surprised anybody else thought this was a good idea- I just thought it might be a way to break up the DSD monotony by forcing people to get out of the porc after a bit, or lose.

[Gota]

You dont need to think what will happen in big dsd games since the majority of players will not use this.
Guaranteed.
Not cause its not a fun idea but because its not standard.
The people who will play it will have no problem of adjusting the map type and game conditions to suit this type of gameplay.

[Saktoth]

This will be all down to reclaim.

Since your army size peaks when all mexes are capped then slowly decreases from there, whoever gets the metal from the period in which the armies were the largest wins. Factor in com wrecks, and will probably come down to that alone (Unless the diminishing is enough that you can get well into t2 before you start to see any real effect, but given that mohos quickly lose efficiency, i doubt t2 will be as appealing).

[imbaczek]

you'll have to disable most defensive structures or lots of games will end in draws.

[JohannesH]

Rez ftw

[Muka]

well u know if anybody except me ( and i think a lot o ppl) played TA before CC that gave us adv. fusions and adv. metal makers the game was different. but taking mm away aint the solving of problem, i think argh is right, the mm e output should be like 10x so it won't be ur basic metal income but the last and worst way to gain metal....

[TradeMark]

i suggested this as engine feature like 4 years ago

[Pxtl]

Much simpler: just disable metal-extractors and plonk appropriate-metal gradual-depletion features on every metal spot. Go reclaim for all your M.

Alternately, there's the AA Action Mode - nobody used it, but it was a clever idea. Fixed large E output, but no energy-generation on any units. This means that every E expenditure (from mohos to firing your LLTs) must be carefully considered.

[Tribulex]

YES! NO MMS + THIS IDEA = EPIC WIN

THIS THREAD ROCKS!!!!