Have you gone 64-bit? Impressions?

[CommanderKeen]

Why don't you bother reading and comprehend what i am trying to say. Sure you may know about this stuff but you are very thick headed. I was asking for WHY 64 bit is better not saying 32 bit is better.

[Forboding Angel]

... 64 bit ... cant be all good if its been out for 5 years and 32 bit is still more popular.

^^ This deserves a facepalm. I'm thickheaded? Sure, I'm thickheaded about the fact that you're blatantly wrong, and even worse, arguing about something which you obviously don't comprehend yet.

I use x64 bit mainly so I can haz 8 rams instead of 3.2.

Fixed

Fixed

^^ Gee, lets see, well there's a good reason... Not the only, but a good one nonetheless.

[CommanderKeen]

yes i know that it supports more ram i only have 3 GB anyway so there is no point for me to upgrade there. Which i said before (maybe you need to read before posting in future). And you say there is heaps of good reasons apart from more RAM support, but you don't say what they are so either there are none (hence no point with enduring compatibly issues if there is no performance benefit for me) or you have less idea than what you are making out and just saying its the best because it is what you use.

[Licho]

I cannot recommend switching to 64bit windows. Running 64bit win7 for nearly a year.

Plusses:
* all ram available if you have > 3GB

Minuses (windows 7 64bit):
* most software does not exist in 64bit variants - so you get no advantage
* programs that exist in both 64bit and 32bit often fail as 64bit - for example svn tortoise hangs in 64bit mode
* some 32bit programs that worked fine on 32bit OS stop working:
- CAG access gateway
- PKI certificate token
- TV viewing software
- some just crash often: total commander, subversion
* programs that do exist in 64bit need more RAM and I cannot measure any performance increase.
* drivers do not exist for older hardware or can be buggy - for example sound blaster x-fi suffers from massive memleak (easilly 1gb after few minutes with EAX effects)

Overall don't expect any real world performance difference on windows platform. Software was built for 32bit world.
Get 64bit only if you need extra RAM.

[Caydr]

If I'm running a 32-bit program like Supreme Commander, with its infamous 2 gb RAM limit that causes crashes (which isn't really its fault), will the 64-bit OS virtualize the extra RAM for it or anything? Any difference?

I think all the optimists have been talking so far, and now Licho has spoken the unfortunate reality of the situation.

Well, maybe I'll give it a shot when Windows 8 comes out, I'll be reinstalling then anyway so it's not like I'll be doing it for nothing if 64-bit doesn't work out.

[Licho]

If supreme commander is 32bit application (I believe it is), it cannot use more than 2GB of RAM even on 64bit OS ..

It's address space is limited to 2GB.

However system can take advantage of extra RAM for its crap and make sure that supcom has all its 2GB in actual RAM and not paged to swap.
It can also use extra RAM for disk caches and similar things.

[Forboding Angel]

Subversion has never crashed for me.

Also, all the things you list are program faults, not operating system faults. Moreover, it's worth thinking about the fact that in 5 or 10 years, 32bit may cease to be available. What are you going to do then?

[CommanderKeen]

Make the switch to 64 bit there will be nothing else to do, but until then 64 bit sounds like more trouble then it's worth.

[Peet]

Also, all the things you list are program faults, not operating system faults.

Picture a city with no roads, only canals. Is it the cars' fault that they cannot drive around?

[Das Bruce]

Inappropriate analogy is inappropriate.

[CommanderKeen]

Still gets the point across, it doesn't matter who's fault the issues are, bottom line is it wont work on 64 bit so thats a reason to go 32 bit.

[Forboding Angel]

+1 to Bruce

So you're saying that because programmers are taking a little while to get their shit together, you should stay?

Oi, well then keen, stick with 32bit ffs. If you have that much of a hardon for it then by all means, do what you like. Long story short, yes 64bit is better. The quirks that people have mentioned in this thread have never happened to me, but then again, I'm a computer repair guy so I know how to fix shit and make shit work if it fucks up. It wouldn't be surprising to me if it were found that the people having issues had badly optimized OSes. Regardless, do what you want, no one is holding a gun to your head, but don't be stupid and manufacture BS about how 64bit is "omgwtfh4xeeeevil".

Stick with the facts.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

so, in short

64 bit is better but for now most programs are more stable with 32 bit

solution: stay 32 bit until stability improves or until key programs have made the 64 bit transition

?

[Forboding Angel]

solution: stay 32 bit until stability improves or until key programs have made the 64 bit transition?

Well that's jsut hte thing, the massive majority of 32bit programs run fine on win7x64 without a hitch. Even carrera (which disables aero visuals while it's running) runs fine.

Scriptor and upspring run the same as always, and if I hadn't seen it myself I'd be the first with my hand in the air saying that I don't think they would work properly. But.. They do.

I have yet to run across a program that doesn't work as butter smooth as it ever did on 32bit.

Edit: 1 exception. Trados. But that's jsut because trados is programmed by 5 year old kinds who don't know their asses from their face. God that program is shit (not to mention hardcore bloatware).

If something runs like shit in 32bit, it's not going to run any better on 64bit.

[CommanderKeen]

I think I'm going to pay more attention to someone who states the facts like Licho, as opposed to someone who seems to like to tell people what to think without anything real to support your point.

[Das Bruce]

so, in short

64 bit is better but for now most programs are more stable with 32 bit

solution: stay 32 bit until stability improves or until key programs have made the 64 bit transition

?

Yes and no. The number of programmes that have problems with 64bit os's are miniscule. 64 bit has been around long enough to say that anyone with half a brain is making sure their programmes run on both.

[Noruas]

Well to be honest, with 64 bit vista >_>, i can't really see much of a difference. I know 7-zip has a 64 bit version and it runs faster then the 32 bit, but not by much, but the extra ram is glorious. I guess it really depends if your going to start doing hardcore Ram intensive things... I would go 64 bit before going 32 bit just for that alone, the extra Ram is nice...

[Forboding Angel]

Lifehacker article: http://lifehacker.com/5431284/the-lifeh ... ng-systems

The Lifehacker Guide to 64-bit vs. 32-bit Operating Systems

You're probably aware that 64-bit and 32-bit versions of your operating system exist, but apart from ascribing to a bigger-is-better philosophy, you may have no idea what separates the two. The question: Should you use a 64-bit version of Windows, and why?

More and more frequently, users are installing the 64-bit version of their operating system of choice over the less capable 32-bit version. But most people don't really have a full understanding of what the difference really is. Below, we're taking a look at the most important differences so you can better understand what you gain (and potentially lose) if you upgrade to the 64-bit version of your OS. (The post focuses on Windows.)

We've already explained whether you really need 4 GB of RAM, a question that touches on the 64-bit issue, but now let's tackle it in more detail.
Which Version Do I Have?

To figure out which version of Windows you are running, just head into the System properties in Control Panel, or you can take the easy route and right-click on your Computer icon in the start menu or desktop, and choose Properties from the menu. Windows 7 or Vista users will be able to check the System type in the list, while the few XP users with 64-bit will see it on the dialog.

Keep in mind that your CPU must support 64-bit in order to be running a 64-bit operating systemÔÇöif you're running a modern CPU you should be fine, but some of the budget PCs don't include a 64-bit processor.
Does 32-bit Really Have a Memory Limit?

In any 32-bit operating system, you are limited to 4096 MB of RAM simply because the size of a 32-bit value will not allow any more. On a 32-bit system, each process is given 4 GB of virtual memory to play with, which is separated into 2 GB of user space that the application can actually use at a time.

Savvy readers might point out that modern chips support PAE, a processor technology that allows the operating system to use a little bit more memoryÔÇöup to 64 GB, but it also requires special application support that most applications don't have or necessarily need.

A common misconception is that this is a Windows-specific problem, when in fact 32-bit Linux and Mac OS X have the same limitations and the same workarounds. 32-bit Linux uses a mapping table to allow access to the extra memory, and OS X Snow Leopard actually ships by default with a 32-bit kernel that can't access all the memory on older systems, even though most of the rest of the OS runs 64-bit processes.

The 4 GB limit for Windows, at least, is also a factor of licensingÔÇöthe home versions of 32-bit Windows, while technically being able to support PAE, have a hard limit of 4 GB for licensing and driver compatibility reasons.
More Problems with 32-Bit

Not only does 32-bit have a hard limit for the amount of memory it can address, there's also another problem: your devices, like your video card and motherboard BIOS take up room in that same 4 GB space, which means the underlying operating system gets access to even less of your RAM.

Windows expert Mark Russinovich found that a desktop running 32-bit Windows with 4 GB of RAM and two 1 GB video cards only had 2.2 GB of RAM available for the operating systemÔÇöso the bigger and better your video cards get, the less of that 4 GB will be accessible on a 32-bit system.
What's Different About 64-Bit?

While 32 bits of information can only access 4 GB of RAM, a 64-bit machine can access 17.2 BILLION gigabytes of system memory, banishing any limits far into the future. This also means that your video cards and other devices will not be stealing usable memory space from the operating system. Windows 64-bit Home editions are still limited to 16 GB of RAM for licensing reasons, but the Professional and Ultimate versions can use up to 192 GB of RAM, so keep that in mind when building that killer system.

The per-process limit is also greatly increasedÔÇöon 64-bit Windows, instead of a 2 GB limit, each application has access to 8 TB of virtual memory without any special API, a huge factor when you consider applications like video editing or virtual machines that may need to use enormous amounts of RAM.

On Windows, the 64-bit versions also come with a technology to prevent hijacking the kernel, support for hardware-enabled data execution protection, and mandatory digitally signed 64-bit device drivers. You also won't be able to use your 16-bit apps anymore, which hardly seems like a loss.
Do 32-bit Applications Work on 64-Bit?

The vast majority of your 32-bit applications will continue to work just fine on 64-bit Windows, which includes a compatibility layer called WoW64, which actually switches the processor back and forth between 32-bit and 64-bit modes depending on which thread needs to executeÔÇömaking 32-bit software run smoothly even in the 64-bit environment.

There are some exceptions to that rule, however: 32-bit device drivers and low-level system applications like Antivirus, shell extensions that plug into Windows, and some media applications simply won't work without a 64-bit equivalent.

In practice, the vast majority of your favorite applications will either continue to work, or provide a 64-bit version you can use insteadÔÇöbut you should check to make sure.
Does 64-Bit Use Double the RAM?

A common misconception about 64-bit Windows is the amount of RAM that is actually usedÔÇösome people seem to think it will use double the RAM, while others incorrectly assume a 64-bit system will be twice as fast as 32-bit.

While it's true that 64-bit processes will take a little extra memory, that is a result of the memory pointers being a little bigger to address the larger amount of RAM, and not an actual double in size. Imagine, if you will, an ancient library filing system that has a card to tell you where to find the book in the libraryÔÇöif you got a bigger box to hold the cards, the library would not double in size, you'd just be able to find the book you were looking for more easily.

What will increase with 64-bit Windows is the amount of drive space needed for the operating systemÔÇöwith a compatibility layer in place, the base OS will take up a few extra GBs of space, though with today's massive hard drives that should hardly be a concern.
The Bottom Line, Which Should I Use?

If you are ordering a new PC with 4 GB or more of RAM, you should probably be running a 64-bit version of Windows so you can use all of the available memory, especially if you want a rig with a large video cardÔÇöjust keep in mind that the Home versions only support 16 GB of RAM (for most people a 16GB limit won't be a problem, but it's worth keeping in mind).

If you're running Mac OS X, you don't need to worry about 32-bit vs 64-bit, and if you're running Linux, you probably know this stuff already.

[Gota]

Need to put you 2 on a deserted island and give each of you a weapon and see who survives the 32v64 battle.

[CommanderKeen]

iono about that but I'll happily be on a deserted island with your mom