New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

[Beherith]

... as long as wind generators output 0 energy.

Car, if you rename them to leprechaun powered energy generators then you will satisfy the licence terms :D

[lurker]

Just as with lua, map licence overrides mod licence. kthxbai.

LOLWUT?!?

Who died and gave you that kind of authority? Fuck a bunch of that bullshit.

It's obviously a joke. Consider this a warning for making such a rude response.

And my wind script really doesn't link to the engine, it contains no code just comments.

It directly changes an engine parameter. No matter how you want to cut it, that is linking.

This wrong in multiple ways. First, the script does not change an engine parameter, it gets in the way of a CA script. Second, having a line saying 'windlevel=0' is not linking by any stretch of the imagination, it's a data block. A value like that isn't even copyrightable. And even if it was a GPL file, that only lets people make their own map with the code.



Also, Licho, why does mod get to tell maps what environment they are in?

[Forboding Angel]

It's obviously a joke. Consider this a warning for making such a rude response.

The joke was not obvious. What makes it obvious? Because he said kthxbai? In case you don't remember that euphemism is used as often to be rude as it is to convey humor.

[lurker]

It's obviously a joke. Consider this a warning for making such a rude response.

The joke was not obvious. What makes it obvious? Because he said kthxbai? In case you don't remember that euphemism is used as often to be rude as it is to convey humor.

Well it's obviously not true; do you think Beherith is stupid/lying? And you still made a very poor response.

[Beherith]

Just as with lua, map licence overrides mod licence. kthxbai.

LOLWUT?!?

Who died and gave you that kind of authority? Fuck a bunch of that bullshit.

And my wind script really doesn't link to the engine, it contains no code just comments.

It directly changes an engine parameter. No matter how you want to cut it, that is linking.

Aww forb, you make it too easy:
1. I already have that authority, engine gave it to me (if said mod wanted to load a license file ingame i could overwrite that as well) XD

2. It doesnt even touch any engine parameters, in fact in this case its CA thats screwing with the engine parameters! Oh the horror!

[JohannesH]

Has it occurred to you people that someone might prefer the CA (or whatever else) gameplay of this map when wind generators are useless?



...
Also someone might prefer CA DSD when theres a duck fusion and research center available to build.

[Forboding Angel]

I wasn't arguing your stance on the response, I am arguing your statement that it was an obvious joke. Do you think hunterw is an idiot? If not, do you recall that he tried to copyright an SMD?

No I don't think behe is an idiot, but I do think that he is playing a childish game for no other reason that to just be an ahole.

@behe point #1: The engine gave you that authority so you can be judge jury and executioner? I think not. So you're kind of a big deal huh? Good luck getting that one past tobi.

@johan, doesn't CA have an option to turn wind off? Did it occur to you that people might want to be able to play an asteroid map without losing wind as an option? Wind is simply a name assigned to a value. It isn't "Real" wind. It's a value that gets changed based on random engine parameters.

You could call it farts and the result would be the same.

[Beherith]

Johannes: Nah this one is just about control.
99% of all maps cause no issues that would ever justifiably warrant mod overriding the map.

EDIT:
Foreboding: Of course that statement was a joke, and yes I remember that occurrence.

This is not a childish game though, I do not want wind on this map since it breaks immersion, why is that SO hard to stomach?

Dude, that second bit was just a massive joke.

[Forboding Angel]

EDIT:
Foreboding: Of course that statement was a joke, and yes I remember that occurrence.

This is not a childish game though, I do not want wind on this map since it breaks immersion, why is that SO hard to stomach?

Dude, that second bit was just a massive joke.

Breaks immersion... Isn't that for the mod to decide what is available in gameplay and what is not? You could have simply set wind at 0 and left it at that, but no, you had to take it a step further when you really didn't need to. THATS why it's so hard to stomach. There is a difference between defining parameters and just being a butthead because you can.

I'm aware that you were trying to make it a joke, but because you actually could do that (regardless of the fact that it'd never stand in trunk) and cause a bunch of drama and problems simply for your own amusement, I failed to find it humorous.

[luckywaldo7]

For a couple games in a row different people would be building "wind generators" before they found at that, hey, they produced no energy! We played the map a couple times and did not have a single good game because of the stupid override.

Now I'm not entirely sure why it is better to have a ruined game than a game that is "not played the way the mapper intended it to be played" just to please the mappers sense of aesthetic.

Sure, there is no atmosphere on asteroids. Does that mean there should be lua preventing Spring 1944 being played on the map at all? Just because, hey, WWII soldiers wouldn't be fighting on an asteroid irl.

I mean seriously, if you didn't want CA to be played on the map you should have just made that clear in the first place and we would not have wasted our time trying to play on it.

Has it occurred to you people that someone might prefer the CA (or whatever else) gameplay of this map when wind generators are useless?

There is a lobby option to disable windgenerators if the players should desire it.

[SirMaverick]

Has it occurred to you people that someone might prefer the CA (or whatever else) gameplay of this map when wind generators are.

I like the idea that the map has influence on the economy, others don't.
Anyway, the worst part for the player is that there is no indication here that wind differs from normal CA gameplay. The map just overrides the internal mechanics and does nothing to the UI. Player builds wind generators -> 0 energy even if mod options says otherwise.

I am personally not against "map extras" but make them so that they don't randomly change the mod gameplay without notice.

[FLOZi]

edit: I'm a noob.

[smoth]

JESUS CHRIST ON A CRUTCH!

ffs, if the map over-rides ca settings... get over it. I don't give two fucks if a map dicks up the settings for a mod played on it. No really I don't go ahead and make a krogoth part of the federation motorpool on your map...

I won't care, I will just laugh...

it is one map.. behe made it...

he can do what he wants..

projects have no sovereignty...

If it does fuck with a project's setting, esp one like ca.. you can easily change it to get around it. ESP with ca and the mapper simply won't have the time to keep up.

[luckywaldo7]

Has it occurred to you people that someone might prefer the CA (or whatever else) gameplay of this map when wind generators are.

I like the idea that the map has influence on the economy, others don't.
Anyway, the worst part for the player is that there is no indication here that wind differs from normal CA gameplay. The map just overrides the internal mechanics and does nothing to the UI. Player builds wind generators -> 0 energy even if mod options says otherwise.

I am personally not against "map extras" but make them so that they don't randomly change the mod gameplay without notice.

+1

the grayed out would have made all the difference in those games.

This is stupid, map makers and mod makers should be working together. Unfortunately, it seems many of the major mapmakers have made it clear that they are only interested in designing for one mod in particular, and do not desire adjustments for any other mods.

If it does fuck with a project's setting, esp one like ca.. you can easily change it to get around it. ESP with ca and the mapper simply won't have the time to keep up.

Like I said, mappers and modders should be working together, not fighting each other for control.

[lurker]

Breaks immersion... Isn't that for the mod to decide what is available in gameplay and what is not?

This only affects CA. CA has wind generators. You can easily see this breaks immersion. Some things are up to the mod, but immersion is a description.

You could have simply set wind at 0 and left it at that, but no, you had to take it a step further when you really didn't need to. THATS why it's so hard to stomach. There is a difference between defining parameters and just being a butthead because you can.

Setting 'wind' to 0 is actually more poorly aimed than this gadget, because as collateral damage it hits 'wind' generators that aren't actually wind-based, like the Evo thingamabobs. See: FLOZi's post.

[Beherith]

I mean seriously, if you didn't want CA to be played on the map you should have just made that clear in the first place and we would not have wasted our time trying to play on it.

Also, there is no wind on this map. Ever.

Minwind=0;
Maxwind=0;

Honestly, how much clearer do I have to make myself?

[lurker]

What about a mod that uses 'wind' but does not have 'windmills'.

In my TA cold war mod, I used 'wind' to represent varying energy supply from logistics trucks. Ok, so you wouldn't play TACW on an asteroid map - but the point is that wind is not always going to be wind.

This original post was fine. It helps show that this gadget is a better method than the normal way, even if Beherith used both. Because beherith did set wind to 0 too.

[Forboding Angel]

just a slight correction, evo doesn't use wind at all anymore, and even when it did, it was a hybrid of wind and constant energy. Meaning, that the unit would produce +10 no matter what, but could produce up to 25 (I think irrc?) depending on the wind.

Also, regardless of the fact that it was using wind, I called them radiometers (which as anyone with a brain knows is a ubershitty way to generate power, but the concept is interesting nonetheless).

Setting 'wind' to 0 is actually more poorly aimed than this gadget, because as collateral damage it hits 'wind' generators that aren't actually wind-based, like the Evo thingamabobs.

Not if said mod was using a gadget to modify wind settings for it's own purposes.

In this case it was speecifically targeting CA, doesn't that seem at least a little bit messed up to you?

[lurker]

Depends, do you call map fusions 'messed up'?

[Beherith]

I really dont get what you think is messed up about this. I told them no wind, they tried to anyway and got burnt. boo-hoo.